now that is something i can definently get behind.  to me it would be like the dual six-axis and move control schemes in killzone3.  75% of the time i just use the six-axis because using the move is frankly a lot of work that can get pretty tiring and often times i'm just not up for it.  ...but everyone once and a while it's kind of nice. 

but thanks for the heads up, now i'm interested to hear those reviews as they come in.

to the top paragraph - rainbird had a nice long post to which i agreed with and added an extra sentence for with you called his argument "moot" because the 3DS has gyroscopes.

to the second paragraph - the z-targeting in zelda is a poorly implemented auto camera system, at least when you compare it to dual analog camera controls.  does it make the game unplayable?  of course not.  but at least for me (i guy very used to dual analog controls) it makes zelda feel very clumbsy and frustrating to control and part of why i don't really like the series anymore.  okay yeah, nintendo's auto camera system isn't nearly as terrible as what third parties have come up with but that doesn't make it good.

Erm, yes... because his whole argument was based around the 3DS 'relying on the touchscreen' for camera controls and thus being in need of a second stick, when there are other options (there's that word again) that negate that need, as I've pointed out.

Z-targeting is one of the most influential and famous targeting systems ever created. I don't think we need to say much more on that, you're entitled to your opinion, even if it is complete bollocks.

I'll admit that I forgot about gyroscope controls when I wrote my original post, but you haven't made any response regarding the issues I pointed out with it.

As such, it remains unproven as a viable option for being used as a main control method. You can have all the options you like, but if neither of them are good enough, then the argument comes full circle back to where it started, namely that the 3DS doesn't have good enough controls.

If Starfox turns out to control brilliantly with the motion sensors, then I'll agree that it is a viable option. But I doubt it's easy enough to use and versatile enough to replace an analogue stick.

You mean the car travel thing? I'd respond to that by asking when are people likely to use their 3DS in their car? I'd assume the answer would most likely be on long journeys. Now, when people travel on long journeys by car, they tend not to stick to minor bumpy roads, they take the motorway/freeway/whatever the hell you want to call it. Motorways are typically long, straight roads with very few turns, if any at all (like those long, vast highways in America), and certainly very few sharp turns.

I'd suggest that those kind of car journeys wouldn't cause too much of a problem for gyroscopic controls.

Now, of course there may be circumstances where it wouldn't be advisable to use them whilst in a car. So, if you find yourself in a rally car whilst it's flying around a bumpy, twisting circuit, then perhaps it wouldn't be the best time to use it. But then the question is, how many people is that likely to affect? We're talking a very niche market here...

And how long would a long journey be exactly? I'd imagine alot of people would use their handheld for gaming on a 40 minute drive, a journey which certainly doesn't have to happen on long stretches of straight road. It goes for busses as well. I used to take the bus to school, which was a good 30 minute drive, I could certainly have used a good handheld on those boring trips.

Motion controls also don't play well with the 3D because of the tight viewing angle, meaning if developers decide to use it as a main control method, they might as well not make the game 3D.

All the best selling Nintendo games don't require dual analog.

However didn't Luigi's Mansion 1 on Gamecube use dual analog? The torch was controlled with the C-Stick. That might hurt the sequel a little.

dual analogue on 3ds would suck nuts. if they added a 2nd stick where would it be positioned? if it went where the 4 buttons go i'd be heaps upset. and if it was arranged like a 360 controller it would be painful using the 2nd stick.

holding the 3ds is no where near as comfortable as holding a xbox360 controller as is. dual analogues would give ya serious cramps in your hands. seriously try and imagine a second stick when holding one. i like just one stick and buttons i can mash on the other side. it's a handheld for short bursts of mario/pokemon goodness.

a fps on any handheld would lick nuts also. that's why the vita fails imo. any screen under 32 inches makes first person shooters a joke to play.

Not good enough, I won't be satisfied until there are THREE analog sticks!