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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - (Rumor) french site strikes again: New 3DS model in 2012 with dual sticks

Lyrikalstylez on 23 August 2011

hahahha......this never seizes to amaze me. Iam so glade I haven't bought a 3ds yet, I always knew from the start that there'd be a new model down the line

Im just surprised people still by nintendo portable's at launch



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milkyjoe on 23 August 2011
kitler53 said:
Rainbird said:
sethnintendo said:
Xenostar said:
Hephaestos said:
I'm sorry but what besides FPS/TPS is the second stick used for? I'm trying to recall PS1 games using it effectively, but I just can't.

Why are you comparing a modern day console to a PS1 ???

Lots of games use it these days in all genres

Sure a lot of games use dual analog these days but does it really affect gameplay drastically.  I play MH3 with Wiimote/nunchuck (only 1 analog) and I do just fine.  I also play FPS on Wii (Goldeneye, BO, WaW) with Wiimote/nunchuck and I do just fine (actually better than almost anyone that uses CCP, especially in HCHQ which I am in the top 100 on BO).  I play TBS (turn based strategy) games and I see no use for even 1 analog stick (FE on Wii just uses just the Wiimote).  Basically for all the genres and games you can think of, I can counter with games that play just fine with either 1 or 0 analog sticks.

It's not so much that a second analogue stick is needed, it's more a case of a better control scheme being needed. You use many Wii games as examples of how a second analogue stick is not needed, but the Wii has IR pointing, a mechanism that is for the most part easier to use and more versatile than an analogue stick.

The 3DS however must rely on its touch screen for the level of control you get on other platforms, but it simply doesn't work as well. If the user is to have the same level of control with the touchscreen as at least a dual analogue setup, they must constantly have the stylus on the touchscreen while having a hand on the analogue stick. This presents a couple of issues:

1) You are only holding the 3DS with one hand, causing strain on your wrist.

2) Switching between the touchscreen and the facebuttons is not as fast a standard dual analogue setup (and not remotely as fast as the pointer setup of the Wii and Move where no change is required at all).

3) The touchscreen is now occupied with movement, even though it might be better suited for having an inventory system ready at a glance.

It's a matter of the 3DS needing better controls, and an extra analogue stick is simply the best solution in this case. That Nintendo didn't put in on there from the beginning is something I find rather baffling.

agree all @ rainbird.

@ seth - i'd argue that analog vs. dual analog affect gameplay just as much as d-pad to analog.  sure you can "get by" without it but it is horribly clumsy in comparsion.

Yeah, and then you remember that the 3DS offers gyroscopic control, which for some reason wasn't even mentioned and that whole point of 'relying on the touchscreen' is rendered moot...

Those two added things put it a lot closer to the Wii's perfectly functional single analog control than the PSP's incredibly awkward single analog control.



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Skeeuk on 23 August 2011

im tempted at £115 on amazon, but i cant picture them releasing a completely new model. mabey a redesign like the lite thats all



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really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

Pavolink on 23 August 2011

N64 library free for the new "Ambassador Program", including Ocarina of Time and Star Fox 64...



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BoneArk on 23 August 2011
Attoyou said:
This better not be true...or fuck Nintendo and fuck my 3ds.

LMAO.

I doubt this is true,but, if it is, this will really suck for current 3DS owners.



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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kitler53 on 23 August 2011
milkyjoe said:
kitler53 said:
Rainbird said:
sethnintendo said:
Xenostar said:
Hephaestos said:
I'm sorry but what besides FPS/TPS is the second stick used for? I'm trying to recall PS1 games using it effectively, but I just can't.

Why are you comparing a modern day console to a PS1 ???

Lots of games use it these days in all genres

Sure a lot of games use dual analog these days but does it really affect gameplay drastically.  I play MH3 with Wiimote/nunchuck (only 1 analog) and I do just fine.  I also play FPS on Wii (Goldeneye, BO, WaW) with Wiimote/nunchuck and I do just fine (actually better than almost anyone that uses CCP, especially in HCHQ which I am in the top 100 on BO).  I play TBS (turn based strategy) games and I see no use for even 1 analog stick (FE on Wii just uses just the Wiimote).  Basically for all the genres and games you can think of, I can counter with games that play just fine with either 1 or 0 analog sticks.

It's not so much that a second analogue stick is needed, it's more a case of a better control scheme being needed. You use many Wii games as examples of how a second analogue stick is not needed, but the Wii has IR pointing, a mechanism that is for the most part easier to use and more versatile than an analogue stick.

The 3DS however must rely on its touch screen for the level of control you get on other platforms, but it simply doesn't work as well. If the user is to have the same level of control with the touchscreen as at least a dual analogue setup, they must constantly have the stylus on the touchscreen while having a hand on the analogue stick. This presents a couple of issues:

1) You are only holding the 3DS with one hand, causing strain on your wrist.

2) Switching between the touchscreen and the facebuttons is not as fast a standard dual analogue setup (and not remotely as fast as the pointer setup of the Wii and Move where no change is required at all).

3) The touchscreen is now occupied with movement, even though it might be better suited for having an inventory system ready at a glance.

It's a matter of the 3DS needing better controls, and an extra analogue stick is simply the best solution in this case. That Nintendo didn't put in on there from the beginning is something I find rather baffling.

agree all @ rainbird.

@ seth - i'd argue that analog vs. dual analog affect gameplay just as much as d-pad to analog.  sure you can "get by" without it but it is horribly clumsy in comparsion.

Yeah, and then you remember that the 3DS offers gyroscopic control, which for some reason wasn't even mentioned and that whole point of 'relying on the touchscreen' is rendered moot...

Those two added things put it a lot closer to the Wii's perfectly functional single analog control than the PSP's incredibly awkward single analog control.


tilt camera controls?  mind linking me a video that shows this off cause i'm having trouble imagining it as anything but terribly akward.  tilt in a driving game, hell ya but something like zelda or 3D mario ... not seeing it.



Rainbird on 23 August 2011
milkyjoe said:

Yeah, and then you remember that the 3DS offers gyroscopic control, which for some reason wasn't even mentioned and that whole point of 'relying on the touchscreen' is rendered moot...

Those two added things put it a lot closer to the Wii's perfectly functional single analog control than the PSP's incredibly awkward single analog control.

It puts it above the PSP alright, but the gyroscope as a main method for camera control remains unproven as a good option. We know it works because of a few small implementations here and there, but I don't think it works well enough to be used in an entire game.

What if I'm sitting in a car, playing my gyroscope-controlled game and the car turns? The camera will fuck up. That goes for any kind of transportation of course. Not to mention sitting down and playing a game where you turn yourself in order to turn the camera will be very cumbersome.

So, does it work? Yes. Does it work well enough? I don't think so.

EDIT: Not to mention how it fucks with the tight 3D viewing angle. No, it won't fuck up if you can follow the 3DS around perfectly, but good luck with that.



milkyjoe on 23 August 2011
kitler53 said:
milkyjoe said:

Yeah, and then you remember that the 3DS offers gyroscopic control, which for some reason wasn't even mentioned and that whole point of 'relying on the touchscreen' is rendered moot...

Those two added things put it a lot closer to the Wii's perfectly functional single analog control than the PSP's incredibly awkward single analog control.


tilt camera controls?  mind linking me a video that shows this off cause i'm having trouble imagining it as anything but terribly akward.  tilt in a driving game, hell ya but something like zelda or 3D mario ... not seeing it.

Guess what, I'm able to link you to a video of it being used in OoT...

Click



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kitler53 on 23 August 2011
milkyjoe said:
kitler53 said:
milkyjoe said:

Yeah, and then you remember that the 3DS offers gyroscopic control, which for some reason wasn't even mentioned and that whole point of 'relying on the touchscreen' is rendered moot...

Those two added things put it a lot closer to the Wii's perfectly functional single analog control than the PSP's incredibly awkward single analog control.


tilt camera controls?  mind linking me a video that shows this off cause i'm having trouble imagining it as anything but terribly akward.  tilt in a driving game, hell ya but something like zelda or 3D mario ... not seeing it.

Guess what, I'm able to link you to a video of it being used in OoT...

Click


1. that's a great video of standing still...     so in this control scheme if i wanted to ... let say .. turn around, i'd physically have to turn around alla the "killer freaks" model?  good luck with that, because i promise you ...

2. ...it's not fun.  i played kz2 with this form of camera control added. it's actually the exact opposite of fun ... as in infuriatingly frustrating.



Mr Khan on 23 August 2011
kitler53 said:
milkyjoe said:
kitler53 said:
milkyjoe said:

Yeah, and then you remember that the 3DS offers gyroscopic control, which for some reason wasn't even mentioned and that whole point of 'relying on the touchscreen' is rendered moot...

Those two added things put it a lot closer to the Wii's perfectly functional single analog control than the PSP's incredibly awkward single analog control.


tilt camera controls?  mind linking me a video that shows this off cause i'm having trouble imagining it as anything but terribly akward.  tilt in a driving game, hell ya but something like zelda or 3D mario ... not seeing it.

Guess what, I'm able to link you to a video of it being used in OoT...

Click


1. that's a great video of standing still...     so in this control scheme if i wanted to ... let say .. turn around, i'd physically have to turn around alla the "killer freaks" model?  good luck with that, because i promise you ...

2. ...it's not fun.  i played kz2 with this form of camera control added. it's actually the exact opposite of fun ... as in infuriatingly frustrating.

Large turnarounds are the only weakness there, however. I was skeptical of using the tilt controls at all in OoT3DS, but i found for fine-tuned aiming it was almost perfect, and i only switched to analogue aiming if i had to swing all the way around.



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