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Forums - Sony - IGN: Why Sony won E3

zzamaro on 11 June 2011

Can you win E3?



Sorry for bad English.

 

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slowmo on 11 June 2011
CGI-Quality said:
slowmo said:
makingmusic476 said:

I don't understand how this myth is still perpetuated.

Around the beginning of a generation, projects are announced early in development.  As the generation progresses, and development cycles shorten and publishing line-ups swell, games are then announced closer to release.  This is equally true for both Sony and Microsoft.

Yes, Killzone 2 was announced four (yes, four - not five) years prior to release, as was Gran Turismo 5 (are you intentionally ignoring the release of Prologue?), but the same can be said for games like Lost Odyssey, Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, and Alan Wake, all of which were announced in 2005-2006, yet none of which came out until 2008-2010.  In fact, Alan Wake had a longer development cycle than any of the PS3 games you mentioned.

On the other hand, sequels to franchises that have already seen releases in a generation are generally announced closer to release.  Gears 2 and Fable 3 were released around a year after their initial announcement, as you pointed out, and the same can be said for Killzone 3, LittleBigPlanet 2, Infamous 2, MotorStorm: Apocalypse, and Socom 4, all of which were announced in the first half of 2010 and released over the first half of 2011.  Then there's Resistance 2 and MotorStorm: Pacific Rift, which were announced at the start of 2008 and released that very same year, as well as Uncharted 2 in 2009.  And there's Twisted Metal, which was announced at last year's E3 conference, and is set to release in October.

Of course, there are exceptions when it comes to new IPs.  For example, Ryse was announced at Microsoft's conference last year, and it's looking like a late 2012 title.  Same goes for Sony and the Last Guardian.


Final Fantasy XIII Versus

 

There will be others but Sony has aggressively announced games well ahead of their competition this generation, it's not a myth just a difference in strategy they used when sales were comparatively poor.  They used early announcements as a tool to build hype for their console and to try and boost sales.  I think by and large they stopped the practice due to the long term hype actually having a negative effect on first week sales as people lost some of their excitment about products when they're forced to wait over a year.  If you announce and launch a title with 6 months the hype is instant and it's easy to build good PR and keep it at the fore front of peoples minds.

 

As for the thread at hand, Sony produced arguably the least sucky conference so deserve the title.

Technically Versus XIII was announced by Square-Enix, not Sony. It's also continued to be (mishandled) by Square-Enix. Every Sony game announced before or just after Versus XIII has released. That's not a very good example.

Edit: Nevermind. Makingmusic is on a roll in here!

OT: There wasn't really a "winner" for me, but I need to see more on the Wii U before being either completely turned off, or sold on day 1.


Sorry I thought FFXIII Versus had received Sony e3 conference time in previous years, my bad if that isn't the case...

@Makingmusic - Rising is a good example of the contrary but I still disagree with you, evidence still points to the majority of E3 announcements of the last 5 years taking longer to be released on the PS3.



Michael-5 on 13 June 2011
ethomaz said:
I have to agree...

Sony won just because PSVita is AWESOME.

PS. Sony showed more interesting new IPs too.

I respect this, even though I vote Ninty.



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Michael-5 on 13 June 2011
leatherhat said:
Michael-5 said:

 This is one reason why E3 bummed me out for PS3, after this fall, what do we have? 


Dust?

Sly?

TLG?

And of course anything quantic dream is doing would be a gamescon announcement. 

Also- if you guys read about it you'll notice that Dust 514 was the biggest announcement of the show by far. The stuff the devs have been talking about doing with it will completely blow all fps games out of the water. And sony has it as an exclusive- they win by far. The more I learn about Dust the more I realize how much further ahead sony's conference was than nintendos or MS. 

This isn't gamescon

I have never played Eve Online, so why would I start with Dust? Console MMO's suck.

Not a Sly fan, and in reality this isn't a major title.

The Last Guardian wasn't shown at E3. Of course that will be epic, but E3 disappointed since it had none of it.

Halo 4, Wii U, PS Vita were all much bigger then Dust 514. Also think about what you're saying, a console MMO. Tell me, have you tried Final Fantasy XI or XIV(Pc for now)? People who play shooters, don't want MMO. They wan't straight mindless action. This is why COD sells, but a Shooter/RPG hybrid like Mass Effect 2 does not.



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Michael-5 on 13 June 2011
goforgold said:
Michael-5 said:
makingmusic476 said:
Michael-5 said:
NYANKS said:
scottie said:
leatherhat said:
scottie said:
IGN: Why PS3 won E3

Because we refuse to admit the existence of Nintendo, and because Sony's was slightly better than Microsoft's.


People can debate who won between sony and nintendo but the fact is sony showed more exclusives (but still barely any) and the wii U underwhelmed. It was a bust of an E3.


Indeed, people can debate it, and I will debate with anyone who actually made an honest assesment, which includes everyone posting in this thread, but does not include IGN writers.

 

Sony always show more exclusives than the others because they show games a long way ahead of time. What you saw at E3 was Sony's exclusives for the next 3-4 years and Nintendos for 1-2. The fact that you are more used to companies that announce years in advance is why you think the Wii U underwhelmed. This E3, they announced that the 3DS will have a bigger lineup than any console has ever had in its first year, barring the Wii's (Wii Sports and Wii Play alone make the Wii's lineup the biggest). Next year, they shall talk about the Wii U. Saying that the Wii U underwhelmed is as ridiculous as saying that the PS4 underwhelmed.

Wait, what games did Sony show that were 3 or 4 years away?  Everything seemed rather close, like 1 or maybe 2.

This E3, Sony didn't announce games 3-4 years in advance (and I think it's because the PS4 is comming). However Sony usually announces games far in advance from Nintendo and Microsoft.

Microsoft almost never announces a game more then 2 years in advance (Halo 4 is just over a year, Forza 4 was less then a year, Forza 3 was like 4 months, and Gears 2 was about 8 months, etc).

Nintendo is similar. The games Nintendo announces the most in Advance are Zelda, and Smash Bros. Even Zelda, at best Nintendo gives 2 years warning.

For Sony, Killzone 2 was announced 5 years before release. Same with GT5, and The Last Guardian was actually delayed by 2 years, nevermind when it was announced.

BAck to the topic at hand, I still feel Nintendo won. Yea Sony announced more 1st party games, but that's because PS Vita just debuted. Nintendo announced more games in general (over 10 for Wii U), and a lot of Nintendo's featured games are bigger in magnitude then Sony's.

I don't understand how this myth is still perpetuated.

Around the beginning of a generation, projects are announced early in development.  As the generation progresses, and development cycles shorten and publishing line-ups swell, games are then announced closer to release.  This is equally true for both Sony and Microsoft.

Yes, Killzone 2 was announced four (yes, four - not five) years prior to release, as was Gran Turismo 5 (are you intentionally ignoring the release of Prologue?), but the same can be said for games like Lost Odyssey, Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts, and Alan Wake, all of which were announced in 2005-2006, yet none of which came out until 2008-2010.  In fact, Alan Wake had a longer development cycle than any of the PS3 games you mentioned.

On the other hand, sequels to franchises that have already seen releases in a generation are generally announced closer to release.  Gears 2 and Fable 3 were released around a year after their initial announcement, as you pointed out, and the same can be said for Killzone 3, LittleBigPlanet 2, Infamous 2, MotorStorm: Apocalypse, and Socom 4, all of which were announced in the first half of 2010 and released over the first half of 2011.  Then there's Resistance 2 and MotorStorm: Pacific Rift, which were announced at the start of 2008 and released that very same year, as well as Uncharted 2 in 2009.  And there's Twisted Metal, which was announced at last year's E3 conference, and is set to release in October.

Of course, there are exceptions when it comes to new IPs.  For example, Ryse was announced at Microsoft's conference last year, and it's looking like a late 2012 title.  Same goes for Sony and the Last Guardian.

It's not a myth, it's just the way console manufacturers are. 2/3 of MS's biggest games this fall were announced at E3, or at Spike's 2010 GOTY Awards. That's less then a year. Dance Central 2, and Kinect Sports 2 are more of the same.

Microsoft doesn't announce projects as early as Sony. When has MS ever announced a game 5 years before release like Sony has with Killzone 2 and GT5? I'm pretty sure no one knew about Halo 3 when the 360 was initially released (but we all knew one was coming).

First of all, if you want to kill what you claim to be a myth, do some background searching.

  • Lost Odyssey was announced only 1 year before release in Americas, (Japanese debut was 2 years before US release).
  • Banjo Kazooie was also only 1 year before release (it was actually absent from E3 2007, but was known to be in development, released in 2008)
  • Killzone 2 was a 4years, my mistake.
  • GT5 was announced 5 years before launch, yes there was Prologue, but the full GT5 was still announced 5 years before launch.
  • Also Alan Wake was released in a shorter release period then GT5, but you are right there is 1 360 games with over a 2 year wait before announcement. (Alan Wake was announced at E3 2005, and released in Spring 2010. GT5 was announced at the same E3, but released in November 2010). Also Alan Wake wasn't confirmed exclusive until 2006.

Now to populate the list of lengthy PS3 releases. Other then Killzone 2 and GT5

  • FFXIII Versus (assuming it remains exclusive) was announced in 2006, that's already 5 years.
  • Agent was announced in 2007, that's already 4 years.
  • MGS4 was announced 3 years before release.
  • If The Last Guardian is released this fall, it will be at 2.5 years, but it will probably not release in 2011.
  • White Knight Chronicles was 2.5 years before release
  • White Knight Chronicles 2 will be 2 years if it comes out this fall.
  • God of War 3 was launched just under 2 years after release (However there was discussion about the game from creators as far back as 3 years)
  • Resistance 3 was announced 2 years before release
  • LittleBigPlanet 2 was almost 2 years
  • LittleBigPlanet was 1.5 years before release
  • Tales of Xillia is 14 months for the Japan release
  • However Uncharted's only get announced 1 year before release. Uncharted 2 was only 9 months, like you say
  • Demon's Souls was also only 1 year.
  • Resistance 2 was also just under 1 year before release.
  • Killzone 3 was the shortest release after debut, 9 months.

Some 360 games

  • Too Human was in development since 1999, 9 years before launch, so you could count that, but development was only shifted to the 360 (from Gamecube, and from PS1) in 2005. So really that counts as 3 years. Still I found a second game for you.
  • Halo: Reach was the longest 1st party game, just over 2 years.
  • Gears 3 was announced 2 years before release
  • Mass Effect 1 was announced 2 years before release
  • Infinite Undiscovery was 2 years
  • Fable 2 was 2 years
  • Halo 3 was just over a year, Halo 4 should be the same
  • Fable 3 was just over a year
  • Forza Motorsport 4 was announced 10 months before release
  • Mass Effect 2 was 10 months
  • Tales of Vesperia was 9 months
  • Gears 2 was announced 8 months before release
  • Halo CEA was announced 5 months before release
  • Forza Motorsport 3 was announced 4 months before release

As you see, 360 only has 3 games that were released over 2 years after announcement, and they were developed by third party studios, not originally planned to be 360 exclusive. Sony has 7 games with over a 2 year release. Wvwn then, that's not a big deal, but Sony has almost no games which were released in less then a year. Yea Uncharteds cut about 11 months, and Killzone 3 got 9, but nothing shorter. This E3, MS announced 3 games to be released by this Novemeber, a 5 month announcement-release Window.

This isn't a myth, MS often announces games just before launch (I have 6 larger games with under 1 year announcements), and Sony has a history of announcing games generally 2 years or earlier before launch (with some exceptions like Uncharted).

YES you are right, there are exceptions. Sometimes MS announces a game 2 years before launch, but it's not common. Sony still has games releasing which have been in development for 3-4 years. Never does Sony announce a game less then 6 months before release, MS does this to at least 1 major franchise, almost every year. Sorry bro, this is no Myth, this is what Sony and MS do. This is one reason why E3 bummed me out for PS3, after this fall, what do we have? I really hope Sony does a late announcement for something, or finally releases Agent.

you know you still get an A for effort lol, no matter how worng or misinformed you are always support yourself to the fullest with super long post like this,

anyway

1. the myth was 3-4 years, 2 years is normal

2. Agent was announced in 2009 IDK where the fuck you got 07 from

I like how you say I'm wrong, and mock me for it, but show no reasoning. Smart...

Never did I say every title was announced prior to release, but often Sony has an exclusive announced over 2 years before release.

As for Agent, on Wikipedia "Sony announced that Rockstar was working on a new franchise for the PlayStation 3 in July 2007[1] but details of the project, including its title, were not announced until June 2009 during the Sony press conference at E3"

However, they didn't give a name, so your point is still valid (but so is mine). Still 2 years down the road, and no release date. If Agent isn't cancelled, it will at least be a 3 year announcement to release wait.

Also, just so you understand why I am right to claim such a thing. I highlighted 7 PS3 games that have taken, or are taking more then 2 years to release. PS3 has 7 games like this, MS has 2 (both third party as well).

However to focus the blaime that Sony commonly announces games years before release isn't fair. Nintendo does this too, Golden Sun 3 was suppose to be a 2004 Gamecube title and it was released in 2010 as a DS title. However Sony is the only developer to show footage over 3 years before release.



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deskpro2k3 on 13 June 2011

I have to agree with IGN on this one. Sony showed the games, and all the exclusives at that, and a new handheld plus the games for it. But, yet people are in denial.

The announcement that I think made Sony the winner is a game that I think has great potential. That game is Dust 514, and it has something that has never been done before. A FPSMMO game that linked with EVE online MMO. How could people not get excited about that!?



Kantor on 13 June 2011
starcraft said:
This article defeated itself. It characterized winning the hardcore over as the goal of E3, where nothing could be further from the truth.

Right, because loads of casual gamers watch E3.

Winning over hardcore gamers is the point of the show.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

starcraft on 13 June 2011
Kantor said:
starcraft said:
This article defeated itself. It characterized winning the hardcore over as the goal of E3, where nothing could be further from the truth.

Right, because loads of casual gamers watch E3.

Winning over hardcore gamers is the point of the show.

That's crap.

Casual gamers watch mainstream media, with E3 being one of the few times the mainstream media pays attention to the gaming industry.

For more thoughts, see my thread:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=129820&page=1#

As an example, the Washington Post has carried numerous articles on E3.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

Ping_ii on 13 June 2011
makingmusic476 said:
Michael-5 said:

It's not a myth, it's just the way console manufacturers are. 2/3 of MS's biggest games this fall were announced at E3, or at Spike's 2010 GOTY Awards. That's less then a year. Dance Central 2, and Kinect Sports 2 are more of the same.

Microsoft doesn't announce projects as early as Sony. When has MS ever announced a game 5 years before release like Sony has with Killzone 2 and GT5? I'm pretty sure no one knew about Halo 3 when the 360 was initially released (but we all knew one was coming).

First of all, if you want to kill what you claim to be a myth, do some background searching.

  • Lost Odyssey was announced only 1 year before release in Americas, (Japanese debut was 2 years before US release).  Lost Odyssey was annoucned at Microsoft's E305 press conference, and wasn't release until three years later in the US, in early 2008.
  • Banjo Kazooie was also only 1 year before release (it was actually absent from E3 2007, but was known to be in development, released in 2008)  This was announced at X06, over two years prior to release.
  • Killzone 2 was a 4years, my mistake.
  • GT5 was announced 5 years before launch, yes there was Prologue, but the full GT5 was still announced 5 years before launch.  This is incorrect.  GTHD was announced at E306, and released for free at the PS3's launch.  Gran Turismo 5: Prologue was specifically announced at E307, and released that year in Japan and in early 2008 in NA/EU.  The full Gran Turismo 5 wasn't unveiled until E309, jut prior to their other project, GT PSP, finally getting released.
  • Also Alan Wake was released in a shorter release period then GT5, but you are right there is 1 360 games with over a 2 year wait before announcement. (Alan Wake was announced at E3 2005, and released in Spring 2010. GT5 was announced at the same E3, but released in November 2010). Also Alan Wake wasn't confirmed exclusive until 2006.  As you can see, this point was refuted by the above information.  GTHD wasn't even announced until E306, let alone GT5: Prologue or the full GT5.

Now to populate the list of lengthy PS3 releases. Other then Killzone 2 and GT5

  • FFXIII Versus (assuming it remains exclusive) was announced in 2006, that's already 5 years.  Not Sony's game.  Are they at fault for FFXIII, too?
  • Agent was announced in 2007, that's already 4 years.  K, this one is Sony's fault.  However, it was announced at E309.  SOE's The Agency was announced in 2007, and it has since been canceled. 
  • MGS4 was announced 3 years before release.  Not Sony's fault!  This was unveiled by Kojima himself via a tech demo at Konami's TGS05 booth, though there was a humorous teaser using MGS3 assets at Sony's E3 press conference that same year.
  • If The Last Guardian is released this fall, it will be at 2.5 years, but it will probably not release in 2011.
  • White Knight Chronicles was 2.5 years before release
  • White Knight Chronicles 2 will be 2 years if it comes out this fall.  Less than two years.  I twas announced at TGS 2009, and is already out in Europe and coming out in North America in August.  It's Japanese release was less than one year after its announcement.
  • God of War 3 was launched just under 2 years after release (However there was discussion about the game from creators as far back as 3 years)
  • Resistance 3 was announced 2 years before release  It was announced at GamesCom in August of last year, only one year before it's September 2011 release.  Where do you get these dates??
  • LittleBigPlanet 2 was almost 2 years  HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?  Seriously where do you get your dates from??  LBP2 was released a bit over two years after LBP1.  How could it have been announced right when LBP1 was released??  It was ACTUALLY announced in Edge Magazine in May 2010, less than a year before release.
  • LittleBigPlanet was 1.5 years before release
  • Tales of Xillia is 14 months for the Japan release Once again, not Sony's problem!  This is all Namco's doing.
  • However Uncharted's only get announced 1 year before release. Uncharted 2 was only 9 months, like you say
  • Demon's Souls was also only 1 year.
  • Resistance 2 was also just under 1 year before release.
  • Killzone 3 was the shortest release after debut, 9 months.

Some 360 games

  • Too Human was in development since 1999, 9 years before launch, so you could count that, but development was only shifted to the 360 (from Gamecube, and from PS1) in 2005. So really that counts as 3 years. Still I found a second game for you.
  • Halo: Reach was the longest 1st party game, just over 2 years.  Nope.  It was announced at E309, putting it closer to 1.5 years.
  • Gears 3 was announced 2 years before release
  • Mass Effect 1 was announced 2 years before release
  • Infinite Undiscovery was 2 years
  • Fable 2 was 2 years  Fable 2 was 2.5 years.  It was announced at E306.
  • Halo 3 was just over a year, Halo 4 should be the same
  • Fable 3 was just over a year
  • Forza Motorsport 4 was announced 10 months before release
  • Mass Effect 2 was 10 months  Multiplatform.  Not Microsoft's doing.  Sheesh what's with you and third party games.
  • Tales of Vesperia was 9 months  Yet again, not really Microsoft's doing.  It was teased by Namco via websites long before we even knew the platform.
  • Gears 2 was announced 8 months before release
  • Halo CEA was announced 5 months before release
  • Forza Motorsport 3 was announced 4 months before release

As you see, 360 only has 3 games that were released over 2 years after announcement, and they were developed by third party studios, not originally planned to be 360 exclusive. Sony has 7 games with over a 2 year release.  I'm looking at 5 for Microsoft and 4 for Sony, based on the corrected dates and the exclusion of games Sony has no control over.  Add in games that took roughly two years to release, and those figures lean even more in Microsoft's favor. 

Wvwn then, that's not a big deal, but Sony has almost no games which were released in less then a year. Yea Uncharteds cut about 11 months, and Killzone 3 got 9, but nothing shorter. This is wrong.  As I said in my earlier post, and have reiterated with my above corrects, the following games have been released this generation within one year of their announcement:  MotorStorm: Pacific Rift, MotorStorm: Apocalypse, Resistance 2, Resistance 3, LittleBigPlanet 2, Killzone 3, Uncharted 2, and (soon) Uncharted 3.  Infamous 2 is also right at the one year mark, while Socom 4 misses it by a mere month.  This E3, MS announced 3 games to be released by this Novemeber, a 5 month announcement-release Window.

This isn't a myth, MS often announces games just before launch (I have 6 larger games with under 1 year announcements), and Sony has a history of announcing games generally 2 years or earlier before launch (with some exceptions like Uncharted).

YES you are right, there are exceptions. Sometimes MS announces a game 2 years before launch, but it's not common. Sony still has games releasing which have been in development for 3-4 years. Never does Sony announce a game less then 6 months before release, MS does this to at least 1 major franchise, almost every year. Sorry bro, this is no Myth, this is what Sony and MS do. This is one reason why E3 bummed me out for PS3, after this fall, what do we have? I really hope Sony does a late announcement for something, or finally releases Agent.

Normally I wouldn't make a big deal about this, but half your dates are blatantly wrong.  It's like you're making up whatever facts you need to support your initial statement.

Also, why is Sony at fault for Square and Konami announcing Versus XIII and MGS4 years before release?  Were they also at fault for FFXIII, despite it going multiplat?  Can we blame Microsoft for announcing MGS: Rising with nothing more than a teaser image three years before release?

Anywho, I've corrected the dates in your post.

LOL!!! such beautiful post.



EdHieron on 13 June 2011

I would say Sony won.

They didn't deluge us with a bunch of games designed for seven year olds like Microsoft and Nintendo. They did have sequels, but their sequels weren't primarily in series that are showing that they're getting long in the tooth like Microsoft and Nintendo did -- no Mario 20 or Halo 5 designed by someone other than its original creators. And unlike Nintendo they didn't unveil a new console that probably won't get as much third party support as they're claiming (didn't see Bethesda, Square, Bioware, or Rockstar in their third party montage video) and feature a controller that will drive up the cost of their new console into uncharted territory for Nintendo, plus Vita can do about everything that the Wii U controller can while being a great handheld portable at a reasonable price as well.

So, a reasonable price for Vita in comparison to the premium prices that Nintendo tries to get for its handhelds, great contemporary gaming experiences like Uncharted and Biohock coming to Vita, Vita being a good cost effective method for allowing the PS3 in conjunction with it to do everything Wii U can do (and a bit more since you can take Vita with you on the go to play its own games which will probably be the most core games of the two handhelds much like the PSP has had), a snazzy new reasonably priced gateway into 3d gaming and home movies for those that can't blow thousands of dollars on televisions, and having the most compelling current gen games would lead me to think Sony won this year's E3.