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Forums - Sony - Hacking Group: "It's the beginning of the end for Sony"

LivingMetal on 31 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.

And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

Piracy didn't affect consumers during the PS1 and PS2 days, so it's highly doubtful that it would be different this time...


Right there...  It effected the Dreamcast.  Awesome system.  We don't need it happening again, ever.  So I stand up for gaming.

You do know that Dreamcast has one of the highest attach rates in the history of gaming right?

As in... it sold more games per console then pretty much any other system. 

So yeah... good job proving the exact opposite of what you meant to.

Attach rates are relative.  Thank you.

I don't see what your tryng to get at here....

Attach rates are relative...

however in systems where piracy would have a negative effect.... you would in fact expect the attach rate to be lower.

Not one of the highest ever...

It's pretty obvious you are NOT going to.



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Galaki on 31 May 2011
LivingMetal said:

Dude, some of these guys are throwing out common sense for the justification of legality. 

Do as I say. Not as I do.



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badgenome on 31 May 2011
vlad321 said:
badgenome said:
vlad321 said:

Every time I buy a knife, the manufacturers and retialers allow me to go and kill a bunch of people. Sure they say they are against it, but given how good a knife is at what it does I feel like they say one thing and do another.

I think they should be sued and all forms of knives outlawed.

Geohotz was wrong because he paid for his legal defense with money donated by other people, while Sony used its own resources.

I wonder how many of the people would be directly afefcted had Sony won something that says things you buy yourself are not yours to modify. My guess is all of them.

How many Jews had a compelling interest in not seeing more of their fellow Jews slaughtered in the immediate wake of the Holocaust? My guess is all of them who bothered to give money did.



MonstaMack on 31 May 2011

Well the last wave of downtime didn't seem to effect Sony's hardware sales much, let alone software.

It will be interesting to see what happens if PSN is down another month.

Good luck Sony.



It's just that simple.

vlad321 on 31 May 2011
badgenome said:
vlad321 said:

I wonder how many of the people would be directly afefcted had Sony won something that says things you buy yourself are not yours to modify. My guess is all of them.

How many Jews had a compelling interest in not seeing more of their fellow Jews slaughtered in the immediate wake of the Holocaust? My guess is all of them who bothered to give money did.

I am very interested in your speculation, but somehow it disagrees with my own speculation. In the end both of us are completely speculating. I am interested to know how people in the US were directly affected by the existance of a jewish state though.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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LivingMetal on 31 May 2011
Galaki said:
LivingMetal said:

Dude, some of these guys are throwing out common sense for the justification of legality. 

Do as I say. Not as I do.

 


[[[said the red "x"]]]



brendude13 on 31 May 2011
Galaki said:
brendude13 said:
Galaki said:
brendude13 said:

"Another one who thinks people don't have the right to hack stuff that belongs to them?"

I believe you said this?

Unless they are using it for homebrew (which is very unlikely), they will be using it to pirate games and bring the Playstation Network to its knees...And you support this.

In Canada, there's a special tax on blank cd/dvd that the Canadian version of RIAA get a chunk of. That's right, every blank disc, they get money, regardless of its usage because it is assume you're buying the blanks to pirate music.

That's where you want it go, right?

Now now, lets not exaggerate.

Lets just say 10% of those CD's will be used for piracy, whereas 90% of hacked PS3's will be used for piracy.

Throw PSN into the equation which not only affects SONY but it also affects the consumer dramatically.

They aren't even on the same scale...

There's a push to impose a tax on flash cards. Something like $3 on an 8GB sd card.

Again, just because someone else make use of the same tool illegally shouldn't penalize you. Why the hell do you have to pay $3 tax but you didn't use it to pirate music? And you have to pay $3 even if you use it for your camera? Etc...

The point is that, how you use the tool dictate whether it's good or bad. Find a way to penalize the ones that do wrong instead of lumping everyone together and assume everyone did wrong.

Cars kill people all the time, but you don't see cars being illegal. We penalize the bad drivers.

Stoping hacking ISN'T penalizing, about 5 people are going to be pissed off because they can't do homebrew on their PS3 anymore.

What I am trying to say is that barely anybody is going to use a hacked PS3 for lawful purposes, and preventing hacking isn't penalizing anybody, SONY aren't taking away anything that they sold to you.

The only thing they really took away was the Other OS option, which I think they should have left in but it WAS prone to hacking, the problem is, removing it just attracted more attention from hackers.



Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
Rpruett said:
Kasz216 said:
Rpruett said:
Kasz216 said:
o_O.Q said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Which again... didn't cause piracy.  Someone later may have used those keys to pirate....

He didn't.  That simple.

You don't penalize people for other people being jackasses.

"Someone later may have used those keys to pirate" o_O you mean the keys he distributed online? or his house keys?


Keys distributed online.  Again, can't penalize people for other people being jackasses.

That's like me giving my friend the address to another friends house to send a birthday card... and then be thrown in jail for murder when the guy freaking murders him.

People who misuse information are the only people who get punished for it.  Not those who provide it.

Again,   You would get in trouble for releasing work related information in a variety of fields in the United States.  Anything related to the medical field, releasing information can get you fired, black balled, legally have action brought on you (Criminal / Civil ) .  

If you worked for a Bank as a safe operator and told someone the combination to the safe (You would be considered an accomplice).

If you worked for Lockheed Martin or a variety of other places and released trade secrets, you would not be able to freely release information or you could be facing the consequences.


Releasing Trade Secrets is a punishable offense and a worthy one for Sony to go after.   This isn't a Sony unique thing either,  Apple didn't like it when he did stuff with their phone either. 

And Apple lost.

As for the rest... those aren't remotely relevent.  Do I really need to go into why?  I mean you weren't being serious right?

 

That's not the point,  it wouldn't be the first, last, only time that the court system has no idea what to do for technology related cases because of a fundamental lack of understanding the technology.

 

Yes, you do need to go into this.

Trade secrets are punishable and exactly what Hotz released.  They are absolutely relevant to the conversation (I would like to hear how you think they aren't). 


Well actually... that very much is the point... and the ruling made complete sense.  Not allowing someone to crack their firmware allows Apple to establish an illegal monopoly and deprive people of plenty of featrues others have provided just as well for free.

 

Aside from which.... lets start with the first two.

A) Trade secrets have to confer a competitive advantage.  In otherwords... if a company finds out your trade secret from an employee it has to confer on them an unfair advantage.  So if Pepsi buys the recipe for Coke from Coke... it saves them the trouble of testing and testing till they get a just right coke flavor.

Knowing the specific keys Sony uses is not a trade secret.

 

B)  Note Employee mentioned there.  If some magical pharmcist took a bottle of coke, and perfectly deconstructed the secret coke forumla and posted it on the World Wide Web for all to see....

there is nothing that could be done about it.

If someone comes across it naturally, it is no longer a trade secret by definition and is now in the public domain.

 

 

So... those codes aren't trade secrets... and even if they weren't... Hotz doesn't work for Sony... so it's a moot point.



brendude13 on 31 May 2011
Galaki said:
LivingMetal said:

Dude, some of these guys are throwing out common sense for the justification of legality. 

Do as I say. Not as I do.

IT'S ALIVE!

And nobody would believe me! Wait until they see this!



Hyruken on 31 May 2011

I think the NPD numbers will give us a better idea of the effect on numbers really. VGC did overtrack PS3 numbers based on recent results from Sony by something like 400k. So it could have the numbers way out based on the downtime period. We will find out in the next NPD if there has been any real change.

Personally i hope these hackers go away but Sony have a target on their head now. It seems to be the "cool" thing to target them right now. If Sony has learnt from it's mistakes then fingers crossed psn should be ok from now on.