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Forums - Sony - Hacking Group: "It's the beginning of the end for Sony"

Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.



And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

How did anything Sony do check anything having to do with unsanctioned mods and piracy?

If anything, they just made the the mods and piracy WORSE because now they're a big bullseye.

So we need a "moderate" amount of immorality in our society to appease the wrongdoers?

Sony made themselves a target by doing something immoral... and again...

Explain how this in anyway stopped piracy or unsanctioned mods.  There is nothing wrong or illegal about unsanctioned mods by the way

It's your OPINION that Sony did something immoral.  The bottom line is that most evil doers are going to fight back when confronted, and that's what's going on.  And it doesn't excuse them for what they were doing if things will get worse when confronted.  And let's assume you are correct that Sony are being immoral here.  Two wrong NEVER make a right.  So still no excuse for these particular hackers.  So let's be reasonable here.

Where dd I say two wrongs did make a right?  All I said is that through their immoral actions Sony has done nothing but hurt the security and enjoyment of their customers by painting a giant bullseye across their foreheads.



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Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.

And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

Piracy didn't affect consumers during the PS1 and PS2 days, so it's highly doubtful that it would be different this time...


Right there...  It effected the Dreamcast.  Awesome system.  We don't need it happening again, ever.  So I stand up for gaming.

You do know that Dreamcast has one of the highest attach rates in the history of gaming right?

As in... it sold more games per console then pretty much any other system. 

So yeah... good job proving the exact opposite of what you meant to.



o_O.Q on 31 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.



And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

How did anything Sony do check anything having to do with unsanctioned mods and piracy?

If anything, they just made the the mods and piracy WORSE because now they're a big bullseye.

So we need a "moderate" amount of immorality in our society to appease the wrongdoers?

Sony made themselves a target by doing something immoral... and again...

Explain how this in anyway stopped piracy or unsanctioned mods.  There is nothing wrong or illegal about unsanctioned mods by the way.


It's your OPINION that Sony did something immoral.  The bottom line is that most evil doers are going to fight back when confronted, and that's what's going on.  And it doesn't excuse them for what they were doing if things will get worse when confronted.  And let's assume you are correct that Sony are being immoral here.  Two wrong NEVER make a right.  So still no excuse for these particular hackers.  So let's be reasonable here.

yeah sony should have compromised the safety of its network and the work of its partners and dev teams to satisfy an extremely small amount of the ps3 population some of whom had showed that they had no quams against piracy and attacking the network... sounds reasonable



Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
o_O.Q said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.



And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

How did anything Sony do check anything having to do with unsanctioned mods and piracy?

If anything, they just made the the mods and piracy WORSE because now they're a big bullseye.

So we need a "moderate" amount of immorality in our society to appease the wrongdoers?

Sony made themselves a target by doing something immoral... and again...

Explain how this in anyway stopped piracy or unsanctioned mods.  There is nothing wrong or illegal about unsanctioned mods by the way.


It's your OPINION that Sony did something immoral.  The bottom line is that most evil doers are going to fight back when confronted, and that's what's going on.  And it doesn't excuse them for what they were doing if things will get worse when confronted.  And let's assume you are correct that Sony are being immoral here.  Two wrong NEVER make a right.  So still no excuse for these particular hackers.  So let's be reasonable here.

yeah sony should have compromised the safety of its network and the work of its partners and dev teams to satisfy an extremely small amount of the ps3 population some of whom had showed that they had no quams against piracy and attacking the network... sounds reasonable

Well it's a better solution then Sony compromising the saftey of it's network and it's partners and devs to satisfy NOBODY.

Which is exactly what they did do.

PS3 and Sony is less secure now then it was before the hack.



Galaki on 31 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.

And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

Piracy didn't affect consumers during the PS1 and PS2 days, so it's highly doubtful that it would be different this time...


Right there...  It effected the Dreamcast.  Awesome system.  We don't need it happening again, ever.  So I stand up for gaming.

Piracy didn't kill Dreamcast. SEGA did.

Did you see how piracy killed the PS3 since it was enabled? Me neither.



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LivingMetal on 31 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.



And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

How did anything Sony do check anything having to do with unsanctioned mods and piracy?

If anything, they just made the the mods and piracy WORSE because now they're a big bullseye.

So we need a "moderate" amount of immorality in our society to appease the wrongdoers?

Sony made themselves a target by doing something immoral... and again...

Explain how this in anyway stopped piracy or unsanctioned mods.  There is nothing wrong or illegal about unsanctioned mods by the way

It's your OPINION that Sony did something immoral.  The bottom line is that most evil doers are going to fight back when confronted, and that's what's going on.  And it doesn't excuse them for what they were doing if things will get worse when confronted.  And let's assume you are correct that Sony are being immoral here.  Two wrong NEVER make a right.  So still no excuse for these particular hackers.  So let's be reasonable here.

Where dd I say two wrongs did make a right?  All I said is that through their immoral actions Sony has done nothing but hurt the security and enjoyment of their customers by painting a giant bullseye across their foreheads.


You said,"Sony made themselves a target by doing something immoral."

And these hackers are being immoral.

See. Two wrongs don't make a right.  For argument sake, I respected your opinion of Sony.  Learn to respect opinions of others.



LivingMetal on 31 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.

And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

Piracy didn't affect consumers during the PS1 and PS2 days, so it's highly doubtful that it would be different this time...


Right there...  It effected the Dreamcast.  Awesome system.  We don't need it happening again, ever.  So I stand up for gaming.

You do know that Dreamcast has one of the highest attach rates in the history of gaming right?

As in... it sold more games per console then pretty much any other system. 

So yeah... good job proving the exact opposite of what you meant to.

Attach rates are relative.  Thank you.





Rpruett on 31 May 2011
Kasz216 said:
Rpruett said:
Kasz216 said:
o_O.Q said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Which again... didn't cause piracy.  Someone later may have used those keys to pirate....

He didn't.  That simple.

You don't penalize people for other people being jackasses.

"Someone later may have used those keys to pirate" o_O you mean the keys he distributed online? or his house keys?


Keys distributed online.  Again, can't penalize people for other people being jackasses.

That's like me giving my friend the address to another friends house to send a birthday card... and then be thrown in jail for murder when the guy freaking murders him.

People who misuse information are the only people who get punished for it.  Not those who provide it.

Again,   You would get in trouble for releasing work related information in a variety of fields in the United States.  Anything related to the medical field, releasing information can get you fired, black balled, legally have action brought on you (Criminal / Civil ) .  

If you worked for a Bank as a safe operator and told someone the combination to the safe (You would be considered an accomplice).

If you worked for Lockheed Martin or a variety of other places and released trade secrets, you would not be able to freely release information or you could be facing the consequences.


Releasing Trade Secrets is a punishable offense and a worthy one for Sony to go after.   This isn't a Sony unique thing either,  Apple didn't like it when he did stuff with their phone either. 

And Apple lost.

As for the rest... those aren't remotely relevent.  Do I really need to go into why?  I mean you weren't being serious right?

 

That's not the point,  it wouldn't be the first, last, only time that the court system has no idea what to do for technology related cases because of a fundamental lack of understanding the technology.

 

Yes, you do need to go into this.

Trade secrets are punishable and exactly what Hotz released.  They are absolutely relevant to the conversation (I would like to hear how you think they aren't). 



Kasz216 on 31 May 2011
LivingMetal said:
Kasz216 said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:
LivingMetal said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony's stubbornness is the cause of all this. If they hadn't picked this fight, then their consumers wouldn't have suffered.

And consumers would have not suffered when unsanctioned mods and piracy goes unchecked?

Piracy didn't affect consumers during the PS1 and PS2 days, so it's highly doubtful that it would be different this time...


Right there...  It effected the Dreamcast.  Awesome system.  We don't need it happening again, ever.  So I stand up for gaming.

You do know that Dreamcast has one of the highest attach rates in the history of gaming right?

As in... it sold more games per console then pretty much any other system. 

So yeah... good job proving the exact opposite of what you meant to.

Attach rates are relative.  Thank you.

I don't see what your tryng to get at here....

Attach rates are relative...

however in systems where piracy would have a negative effect.... you would in fact expect the attach rate to be lower.

Not one of the highest ever...



LivingMetal on 31 May 2011
Rpruett said:
Kasz216 said:
Rpruett said:
Kasz216 said:
o_O.Q said:
Kasz216 said:
 

Which again... didn't cause piracy.  Someone later may have used those keys to pirate....

He didn't.  That simple.

You don't penalize people for other people being jackasses.

"Someone later may have used those keys to pirate" o_O you mean the keys he distributed online? or his house keys?


Keys distributed online.  Again, can't penalize people for other people being jackasses.

That's like me giving my friend the address to another friends house to send a birthday card... and then be thrown in jail for murder when the guy freaking murders him.

People who misuse information are the only people who get punished for it.  Not those who provide it.

Again,   You would get in trouble for releasing work related information in a variety of fields in the United States.  Anything related to the medical field, releasing information can get you fired, black balled, legally have action brought on you (Criminal / Civil ) .  

If you worked for a Bank as a safe operator and told someone the combination to the safe (You would be considered an accomplice).

If you worked for Lockheed Martin or a variety of other places and released trade secrets, you would not be able to freely release information or you could be facing the consequences.


Releasing Trade Secrets is a punishable offense and a worthy one for Sony to go after.   This isn't a Sony unique thing either,  Apple didn't like it when he did stuff with their phone either. 

And Apple lost.

As for the rest... those aren't remotely relevent.  Do I really need to go into why?  I mean you weren't being serious right?

 

That's not the point,  it wouldn't be the first, last, only time that the court system has no idea what to do for technology related cases because of a fundamental lack of understanding the technology.

 

Yes, you do need to go into this.

Trade secrets are punishable and exactly what Hotz released.  They are absolutely relevant to the conversation (I would like to hear how you think they aren't). 


Dude, some of these guys are throwing out common sense for the justification of legality.  Quite ironic (actually hypocritical) when you really thing about it.