If dowloadable game are not sub game, tell me why they are budgetware and why nobody want to sell them at retails?

They are considered like  cellphone games. If they were so popular, so ambitious, so good, they would not been sold so cheap on a niche market.

I never said those games were above critisism, I just said that your critisism was unfair.

Classic platformers may be monotonous to you, but to others, like me, they just play the way they should play.

I grew up in the N64 era, so many games you had your fix of in the 16-bit era, I never played, and they are new and mysterious to me becasue people decided to stop making those games for over a decade. The only real Mario platformer I ever saw for a long time was Super Mario Land. People seem to forget just how rare proper 2D platformers became in the mid/late nineties. We've only had, like 3 genre staple games releasing after 20-15 years, and you're talking about monotony.

I think you misunderstand me, when I say "second class market" I'm not making any qualitative judgements, but speaking purely in financials.  There's definitely a perceived price limit with DD platforms, they won't go above $12-15... I think it's also conditioned the HD audience now to expect games in certain genres (platformers being one) to hit at only those pricepoints.  It's created, quite literally, a second class market depending on game type.

I'd also take issue at your second point, and not just because you listed Lost in Shadow twice. :P

While I do think there's potential for some games to better via DD services (Lost in Shadow would be a good example imo, though it's budget would have to be slashed to go from $39.99/5080 yen retail to DD prices) or better via Wii retail (Sonic 4 unquestionably would be a much bigger seller there, though it'd have to demand far more content than just Episode I did), as always it's more a case by case thing.  

What you're wrong on though is only established brands doing well Wii side, de Blob being an excellent counter example of a well handled 3rd party Wii platform release that sold incredibly (700k shipped it's first year, putting it ahead of any XBLA/PSN platformer to date afaik).  The purely revisionist notion I see spreading (chiefly among Wii detractors) that Epic Mickey especially was a "sure thing" is pretty amusing.. frankly I can't even remember the last time a Disney game sold well over a million units it's first month in just one country.  In fact, I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened this generation, until Epic Mickey.

I also think some of your examples are a bit odd; Muramasa isn't even really a platformer and it's actually the developer's best selling game in history.  Ivy the Kiwi released both at retail and DD, and on DS too, and didn't do particularly well anywhere.  I doubt the game would've done any better on XBLA or PSN, it'd have gained literally nothing for the increased spec both bring but it would've controlled far worse with their further abstracted standard controllers.  The only game you can really make a case for would be Lost in Shadow imo (it has a great design that could "take off" with the XBLA community I think), and even then, the game would likely be pretty dramatically different do to the budgets involved for retail vs DD, particularly in Japan.

Wii's DD services have actually had some notable genre successes too, from lower key VC reissues (Bonk, Gunstar Heroes, DoReMi Fantasy, etc) to lauded retro throwbacks (Cave Story, MegaMan 9-10, Konami's ReBirth line, etc) to newer platformers from smaller devs (Lost Winds, Jett Rocket, NyxQuest, etc).  I'd say it's actually to the platform's credit that it can strongly support both retail and DD releases in the genre.  Wii really does seem to rule platformers, Mario or not.

I actually wouldn't agree on Sonic, not entirely.  Sonic 2006 bombed (and deservedly so), but Unleashed still sold far less than it should have HD side, especially when compared to the inferior Wii release.  I think Unleashed did okay all told on the HD twins, but I think even Sega was expecting better (which is likely in part why Colors went Wii only).

And let's not forget there have been multiple big Sonic sellers on Wii (Secret Rings, Unleashed, Colors is off to a promising start) and even the noted "bomb" in the group (Black Knight) still sold almost as well as Unleashed on 360 and PS3.  There's also other Wii successes, like Epic Mickey and de Blob... de Blob 2 (which is multi) should be interesting to watch...

I think your idea of a 'downloadable game' is far different than mine.

A downloadable game is anything built with downloadable titles in focus. Its a strategy that yields a higher return on investment, which is very lucrative for devleopers. Even AAA developers like Capcom are using it, because they can make about 30-40% more money for every $1 sold via these means (versus the typical brick and mortar distribution method).

Many downloadable games are not budgetware. They are just simply designed for the downloadable market, and have a size and scope that are more focused to be worth $10, $15, or $20 than $40, $50 or $60. I've played plenty of games that were $60 that wouldn't be worth it on a downloadable service. Likewise, I've played and owned downloadable games that far exceeded their value.

Here are some of these supposed 'budgetware' titles:

Now, of those 4 examples, how can you consider them horrible examples of gameplay? In the case of Castle Crashers, the title is longer than a lot of Xbox 360/PS3/Wii full retail titles. Shadow Complex is about as lengthy as Symphony Of the Night with all the great updates of a game based on UE3. Maybe your in a different world than me, but I paid the same amount of money for all 4 of these games as I would a new Nintendo Wii title. Methinks thats a pretty good value for these 4 games.

Shadow Complex was a bit of a special case budget wise.  It's paid for by Microsoft and was a test case for high end UE3 games on XBLA, so further subsidized in that regard.  It's like saying AAA 360 exclusives can be as cheap as $10m to make since that was the budget on Gears of War, it doesn't really reflect the financial reality for most game makers under normal circumstances.

Dead Rising: Case Zero is also a bit off, since it recycles assets and technology from the high budget Dead Rising 2.  It's more a marketing tie-in release than really an independent ground up effort, if DR2 didn't exist Case Zero literally couldn't.

That's what you think.

Not what the majority of people, including the developpers think. If they could have sold these titles at retail for full price they would have. They did not because these games were not judged interesting enough to sell on retails.

If a game is valued 10$ in downloadable form instead of 40-50$ it's because they judge it's not good enough to sell at this price. It's more like cellphone games, despite being more complex.

Anyway it's a niche market and I would not be surprised if the VC alone outsold the platformer on PS3 and 360 combined by a huge margin. Because people know this game are full games.

That's exactly that.

The day platformers are quarters of games costing 10$ only on dowloadable content, then the genre will be completely dead.

I am glad that NIntendo is still pushing the genre and giving millions of fans true , full scale and ambitious platformers, encouraging third parties to follow their path by proving there are a public for this genre on Wii, which is not the case on other consoles.

 Sonic games would sell on PS360 if they bothered to release them, I think there is one coming this year though so we'll see. But yeah I was really just trying to point out that by setting up that criteria to wipe out Sony's platformers, you really do leave the genre on the Wii with very little to boast about. You'd have been much better just keeping 1st party titles in to make your point :P.

 I'm looking forward to de Blob 2 and think it will be interesting to see how it does. Obviously it should dominate in sales on the Wii, but sequels on the console have been a mixed bag so maybe it's uniqueness on the HD consoles will help it, or something. 

 Also with regards to this downloadable title debate, I can only reiterate what others are saying in that alot of the $10 / $15 games on PSN / XBLA are far better games then many full retail titles, far better value propositions and in some instances full of more content. It's still a new segment of the industry that is in it's early life, growing every year, but it's becoming more and more relevent (Digital as a whole is set to overtake retail this year) and it's giving us games and experiences that simply couldn't exsist through the retail route which can never be a bad thing.

Did you just call platformers which can be beaten in 11 minutes full games?