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Forums - Nintendo - I figured out why the Wii doesn't get better third party support

1) Everyone assumed the Wii would fail; diverted resources and put all their chips into the "HD" game. As a result, Wii got little support initially.

2)Wii took off and 3rd parties got caught with their pants down. However, they didn't know much about Gamecube architecture, much of which the Wii is based on. With this little knowledge, and the assumption that only Wii Sports-like game sell millions, they attempted to cash-in on the missed Wii boat with quickly made knockoffs, that had nowhere near the same quality or polish as Nintendo's originals.

3) Without knowing what exactly their market is, 3rd Parties keep throwing things at the Wii wall, hoping something sticks, but they don't realize that quality games that cater to an audience's need and a shred of promotion is what sells games, rather than unpolished me-too titles. Discouraged by their failures, the assumed pressure from curious shareholders/investors, and the continued success of the Wii (2008 was...legendary saleswise) they begin to reject the console, and begin cratfing literally a hundred reasons as to why they should abandon the Wii boat, and continue the HD course. It began with thinly veiled cheap shots at first, but then the gaming media assisted in turning it into an all-out war. ****It got to a point where games were likely made with the intent to destroy the Wii market, which was nearly accomplished.**** 3rd parties would release dozens of absolutely terrible titles, some that reused the same unpolished assets and thrown into the retail chains.

4) When it got into the overall mindset that the Wii was not worth the consumer's time, the few game companies that were even trying to support the Wii had their products mudslinged. The main proof of this was the "Core games don't sell on Wii mantra". For example, THQ's experimental failure, Deadly Creatures, supposedly was the end-all,be-all of their core support. After that destined failure only sold 150k, other 3rd parties  of already shakeable quality were called into question, and the idea that Wii games were not  worth it was officially the immediate response to mostly all of its software. Although it is weaker in terms of hardware, developers went out of their way to produce PSP titles in an effort to shame the viability of owning the console.

5) Already this late into the generation, making Wii games is a moot point, with hardware coming that almost rivals it (3DS, Wii2). Dozens of companies closed down, but it was worth it in their eyes. The Wii may be enduring a little consumer comeback in terms of people liking Nintendo for a while, but that won't last long. Piracy has ravaged the console already, and in terms of software the charts are bare, especially in Europe. In the end, gaming was pretty much divided completely- it became gaming enthusiasts/media versus everyone else ("Casualz")

****My opinion



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Don't you think its possible 12  million is a typo for 32 million?  PS3 has sold more than 12 million in NA.  Even Obama misspoke about  58 states in America.



LordTheNightKnight said:
theARTIST0017 said:

I have a different theory. Image and Power. When many 3rd party companies think about Wii, they think about the target audience, who is going to buy these games. Then they say "ok", Wii isn't the console of choice for "Red Dead: Redemption". We need a console where the target audience is 19-35 year olds. Ok PS3 and 360. It started that way and its continued to roll that way. Power. When you talk about how much power the Wii has compared to 360 and PS3, they're not the same. Multiplat games are easy to port between 360 and PS3 but when its time to port it on Wii, they must dumb down graphics etc. As far as the power theory goes though, I'm pretty sure most HD games could be ported to Wii and would look fine. 3rd parties like to bullshit. Image, well I'm not sure. Maybe Nintendo will pull a 3DS move and grab 3rd parties to develop for their next system. I mean think about it, ever since Wii, they've been slowly gaining 3rd party support.


I'd chalk it up to two other things: 1) Not understanding why games sell in the first place, and 2) Thinking throwing money at a game is more important than good design.

1. They think games they like don't sell on the Wii, but perhaps why they like games that sell on the HD systems are not the reason they sell. Take Chinatown Wars, which was a DS game, but still fits. They create a mutant game that doesn't even capture the feel of the top-down games, and especially not the 3D games that made the series a firt tier franchise. So thinking that running around a 3D world wreaking havok is not the reason that the series became a hit, and thinking just being called "Grand Theft Auto" and getting good reviews (which are also not due to being games in a 3D world wreaking havok) is a sign of not understaning why games sell.

2. A lot of HD games have good design, but it seems the developers think those are just things to throw in, and the graphics are what make the game. So if something limits the graphics, they don't know what to do. They spend more time on the graphics and less on design, which gives us rail shooters that slow down the action and try to show all the detail they put in.

So I believe a lot of developers are as dumb as this thread is implying, just in many varied ways.

True, and not only that look at games like The Last Story. Looks amazing already right? And we've only seen scans. So look what 3rd parties can do if they actually try. I think laziness has a part to do with it. I can't wait to see future Wii games like DQX etc.



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

Armads said:

I think it's because devs don't want to even try to compete with Nintendo on quality games and choose to simply make cash-ins that take no effort yet make more money.  Why try and make the next New Super Mario Bros when Just dance 2 will make just as much money?


This is what I think.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

RolStoppable said:
famousringo said:

The thread creator's analysis is incredibly naive. An Activision executive has a far deeper and more nuanced understanding of the market than you can appreciate.

What's the first game that people get for their Wii? Wii Sports, of course, because they don't have a choice. But after they play Wii Sports, the few casuals who actually want more than a tech demo and don't just throw the Wii in a closet go and get Mario Kart Wii. To date, Mario Kart Wii has sold just under 10 million copies in the Americas, and this is the actual, addressable market of Wii owners who are interested in playing real games.

If anything, Brian Pass was being generous in suggesting that there might be a couple million Americans who are too hardcore to play Mario Kart Wii, but still own a Wii and might consider buying an Activision game for Wii instead of their real console.

Activision bases the addressable market on Wii owners who bought Mario Kart Wii? Seriously?

If that were the case, then they would have released Blur on the Wii because the demographic for that kind of game is already there. But they didn't and that means you are wrong. You still have much to learn and you are young...

Young and naive.

it is surprising how accurate this is. I my opinion if you are going to market at the Mario Kart Wii crowd why not put BLur on that console as well...



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agree with chrizum, developers are stupid...

they haven't got a brain, so they cannot figure out how Wii works



don't mind my username, that was more than 10 years ago, I'm a different person now, amazing how people change ^_^

TwoPointOh said:

Wii didn't getr good third party support for three reasons:

 

The first reason was that everybody saw the Wii falling to a distant third place this generation.  As such, they figured that they would make more money by supporting the two HD consoles. 

 

The second reason is that once developers saw that the Wii was  doing well, they decided to support it with the wrong types of games.  They had second and third string development teams make "casual" games for some easy money.  The games didn't sell, and developers were out of money.

 

Third, they put all of their main franchises on the HD systems.  So now, they are stuck on those systems as that is where all of their customers are.  If they switched over to the Wii now, they'd just sell less than they would on the HD systems since they would be effectively fragmenting their customer base.  Someone who bought a PS3 for Metal Gear probably isn't going to buy a Wii to play the next installment of Metal Gear, for example.

 

So, third party support is limited to spin-offs of main franchises and new expanded audience games.  Ubisoft got a smash hit with Just Dance on Wii for example, but Assasin's Creed will never sell that well on Wii since most all of the AC customers are on 360 and PS3.  Wii won't get the next installment of FF, and offshoots like Crystal Chronicles will continue to do relatively poorly.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your three reasons. Developers put all their games on the HD Twins before they had a chance to draw the same audiences to Wii. Thus, while some of the audience is  with Wii, most of it is with the HD Twins now.

 

Developers might see porting games to Wii as unworthy of the investment. Their loss, perhaps.



The BuShA owns all!

"Thus, while some of the audience is  with Wii, most of it is with the HD Twins now."

Except that is just assumed because there are not really any games truly like what sells most on the HD systems, on the Wii right now. Call of Duty doesn't have split screen. Only three FPS games have split screen. There isn't a 3D GTA game. There isn't an Assassins Creed.

You can't just assume the audience isn't there unless you have games that the audience actually goes for, and then they don't go for it on the Wii. They don't have that yet.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

I've mentioned the reason the Wii gets lackluster 3rd party support for a while, and it has yet to be disproven:

1.  Casual "newbs" don't know what makes for quality gaming, and are either overwhelmed or just uninterested in hardcore 3rd party titles.

2.  Nintendo fans, fanboys especially, feverishly support anything from Nintendo, no matter how trivial, crappy, or uninspired, while gleefully ignoring anything from 3rd party titles.  Look at the 3DS, what's getting talked about more by the fanboys, a barely-improved Zelda title from 13 years ago, or a strong third party title, clearly intent on pushing the 3DS's strengths, such as Resident Evil Revelations?  Clearly, all any fanboys talk about "yayz Ocarina of Time being re-released for the 5th time!"

The 3DS is getting the most phenominal 3rd party support of any Nintendo system since the SNES.  No doubt, the fanboys will go the lengths to ruin it.

More proof?  Grand Theft Auto Chinatown wars sold grossly fewer copies on the DS than pretty much any other GTA title since GTAIII was released.  Meanwhile, Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories sold through 6 and 3.75 million each on the PSP. 

Blue Ocean newbs and Nintendo fans tend not to buy third party games.  And like I've said in the past, they'd support another cash-grab, crap-reviewed Mario Party than an original 3rd party effort averaging twice the score. 

The GameCube started off with some fairly impressive 3rd party support, but the Nintendo fans took several steps to ruin that.  The original Xbox barely sold more than the GameCube (24 million to 21 million), but the Xbox maintained strong 3rd party support through the end--because those gamers bought the games.  Many of which were released in identical form on the PS2 and GameCube.

It all comes down to sales.  Calling developers stupid is just ignorant.  For one thing, that decision is usually on publishers, not developers.  For another thing, they have a history of common sales that they go by:  The story remained the same on the N64 and GameCube--Nintendo fans buy Nintendo titles, and tend to ignore anything else en masse, regardless of quality. 

You want better 3rd party support on Nintendo systems?  You actually have to buy the games.  I buy the damn things.  But then, I'm not some absent-minded Nintendo fan.  I'm a gamer as well as a Nintendo fan. 



The Wii has great 3rd party support! Just look at all the games on the system. More than what the PS3 has!