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Forums - Gaming Discussion - No More Heroes on HD consoles has pretty good first week in Japan

jarrod on 26 April 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:
routsounmanman said:
Mr Puggsly said:
routsounmanman said:
Mr Puggsly said:

PS2 memory cards were only like 8MB. You can't keep much DLC or updates in that.

While the PS2 Slims had networking built in, the masses already owned a PS2 fat with no networking built in. To the contrary, every Wii has networking hardware built in.

Ultimately, the Wii was designed for online gaming on day one. The PS2 wasn't. Therefore the Wii is "better suited" for online gaming. That has a lot to do with why Monster Hunter performed better on the Wii.

Spin, spin, spin.

And ofcourse... broadband internet is more common in households now than it was in 2004.

But hey, none of this is relevant at all. Nope, 2004 and 2009/2010 didn't have different circumstances at all.

Why can't you just accept the fact that gamers will go to whatever platform their favorite game goes, and that Wii can sell core games perfectly fine?

Hmmm... what the hell are you talking about?

I'm explaining why the Wii has an advantage for online gaming over the PS2. Hence, why Monster Hunter is better suited for the Wii compared to the PS2 and why it has performed better on the Wii.

I do however disagree with one thing you said. The Wii typically doesn't do a great job selling core games. But that's not relevant with the discussion I'm having now.

This is a bit of a side tangent at this point, but the fact remains that Wii is not inherently better suited to online games like Monster Hunter than PS2 was when MHG released in 2005.  Monster Hunter doesn't require mass storage (and doesn't even use SD card saving on Wii, hell you can even transfer character data to the measly 6KB in the Wiimote with room to spare) and by the time MHG released, every new PS2 sold came with a BBA.  Online capability literally has NOTHING to do with why MHG Wii outsold the PS2 original.

As to your second point, the franchise we're already talking about (Monster Hunter) pretty much shatters your "opinion" there.  AAA core games, if handled well, can do phenomenally on Wii.  And to be blunt, MH is about as "hardcore" as they come on consoles...

1. EVERY Wii has networking hardware. Hence, EVERYBODY with a Wii has a console ready to go online. Every PSP can also go online. That's not the same case with the PS2. A majority of PS2 consoles sold are fat and have no network hardware. We can also assume most core gamers bought the fat PS2, not the slim.

2. Online gaming is more prominent on consoles now than it was in 2005.

3. MHG was just a slightly updated version of the original MH, it wasn't really a new game. The Wii only had MHG, so it didin't split sales with the original MH.

All of this is relevant for why MHG performed better on the Wii than the PS2.

I said the Wii TYPICALLY doesn't do a great job selling core games. The keyword being typically. Also, is it any surprise a MH game sold well on the Wii? Its already a mega popular franchise. It has also seen much better sales on the PSP.

1. Actually no, EVERY PS2 is also capable of going online.  Granted some required a BBA purchase, but then MHG Wii also doesn't doesn't even work without buying that extra controller (while the Dualshock came with each PS2).

2. On Wii though?  Honestly, I'm not that sure... besides, online is just half the MH formula.

3. Upgraded reissues tend to encourage repeat purchases among hardcore fanbases, not discourage them.  You really think games like Pokemon Platinum or Super Street Fighter IV are sold to chiefly brand new users?  

None of this is at all relevant as to why MHG sold well on Wii.  It sold mainly due to the bundled Tri demo and general franchise outgrowth. Not because of Wii's bustling online community.  Hell, G/3 Wii even use Capcom's old proprietary PS2 online system, it's the same exact subscription based Hunter License on each.

 

As for "core games" selling (or not) on Wii, there's plenty of other examples to the contrary, including quite a few from just Capcom alone (RE4, UC/DSC, TvC, MegaMan 9/10).  MoHun 3 breaking records though (it's the best selling subscription based online game in HISTORY in Japan, only ANY platform) just further cements that.  

TYPICALLY, Wii may not compare to PS360 directly when it comes to selling core games, but that doesn't mean the platform's inherently incapable of it.  And honestly, that more a reflection of Wii not TYPICALLY receiving core games with high sales potential or promotion compared to PS360.  MH3 is something of an exception to the rule in both cases, and that alone proves it can be done if the brand/support is there.

1. Hah, "Granted some required a BBA purchase." Having to purchase a BBA makes a world of difference and a majority of the consoles sold didn't come with networking hardware. If the PS2 had one built in from the begining I guarantee the online community for that console would have been much bigger. Imagine if the wifi adapter became standard for the Wii this year, you think its online community would be as big or it would have sold as many VC/Wiiware games? Of course not.

Obviously a classic controller is more practical than a BBA. There weren't that many games that took advantage of the PS2 BBA. The classic controller is great to have for a lot of games. Damn near mandatory.

2. I imagine the Wii online community would be bigger if it had user profiles instead of those stupid friend codes. But the Wii does appear to have a very active online commnuity. The big appeal to MH is the online features. If core gamers are buying it I guarantee they want to play it online.

3. MHG wasn't a big upgrade over the original. Also, MH2 was coming. That sold even more than the PS2 and Wii's MHG combined.

Its all relevant. The Wii circumstances are different from the PS2. If you still don't agree with anything than drop it. You aren't gonna change my mind and I won't changes yours.

 

You already understand I was talking about TYPICAL core sales on the Wii. You don't have to dig up the few exceptions. When I say every core game fails on the Wii, than you can have this argument.

1. PS2 slims account for nearly 50% of all PS2 sales, I'd say "the majority" of PS2 consoles are actually equipped for online.  I'd also say the majority of Wii's aren't "equipped" to play MHG, given it's only playable with a CC (Tri can use Wiimote+nunchuk though).

Online play was pretty common on latter day PS2 as well, even in Japan.  Capcom alone had a ton of titles that managed it (CVS2, MVC2, 3rd Strike, Monster Hunter 1/G/2, RE Outbreak 1/2, auto modellista, etc, etc) and even had their own all encompassing KDDI service to cover it (which MHG/3 on Wii still uses today).  

2. I don't disagree, Nintendo's online solution this gen has been awful form nearly every angle.

3. It doubled class ranks, and had tons of new content.  It also released before MH2 was even announced.

Really though, none of this is really all that relevant.  G Wii sold because it was a warm up for Tri (demo!), and the franchise had exploded on PSP. Inherent platform suitablitiy for online play was a complete non-factor in Japan, where "online" is a niche factor even among MoHun fans.

 

 

And to core Wii game sales, TYPICAL core sales on Wii work both ways.  As in they're TYPICALLY not great, and TYPICALLY not awful.  They're TYPICALLY rare situations, both ways.



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Mr Puggsly on 26 April 2010
jarrod said:

1. PS2 slims account for nearly 50% of all PS2 sales, I'd say "the majority" of PS2 consoles are actually equipped for online.  I'd also say the majority of Wii's aren't "equipped" to play MHG, given it's only playable with a CC (Tri can use Wiimote+nunchuk though).

Online play was pretty common on latter day PS2 as well, even in Japan.  Capcom alone had a ton of titles that managed it (CVS2, MVC2, 3rd Strike, Monster Hunter 1/G/2, RE Outbreak 1/2, auto modellista, etc, etc) and even had their own all encompassing KDDI service to cover it (which MHG/3 on Wii still uses today).  

2. I don't disagree, Nintendo's online solution this gen has been awful form nearly every angle.

3. It doubled class ranks, and had tons of new content.  It also released before MH2 was even announced.

Really though, none of this is really all that relevant.  G Wii sold because it was a warm up for Tri (demo!), and the franchise had exploded on PSP. Inherent platform suitablitiy for online play was a complete non-factor in Japan, where "online" is a niche factor even among MoHun fans.

 

 

And to core Wii game sales, TYPICAL core sales on Wii work both ways.  As in they're TYPICALLY not great, and TYPICALLY not awful.  They're TYPICALLY rare situations, both ways.

1. Well I guess neither of us can prove what the majority owns, but the PS2 online community would have been much larger had the PS2 been eqipped with an ethernet port on day one. Also you'll agree that the amount of people playing console online games has changed greatly in the last 5 years. Many core gamers missed out on playing PS2 online because they had the fat unit. Having to buy the BBA hinders many from playing online.

3. Well it wasn't a big enough improvment apparently. Because MH2 sold considerably better.

Like I said, there are a lot of circumstances why MH performed better on the Wii. You're throwing even more on the table. But the increase of online gaming on consoles shoulnd't be ignored.

 

The core sales have been poor enough for developers to give the Wii less core games even with its large userbase. Bear in mind I'm saying LESS. I'm not saying its being ignored completely.



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masschamber on 26 April 2010

2 thoughts occurred to me, I wonder how many of these purchases were people that bought the wii version and wanted to also play it on the HD twins, personally I plan on importing it just to see the difference if western releases are announced soon,
second I wonder if any where purchased for the sole purpose of outselling the wii original, you know what I mean,



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NOW A PUNISHER CAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oniyide on 26 April 2010

@masschamber Whoa there, buddy. are you saying that there are people who are so bias that they would spend money on a game soley to increase sales for there favored platform over another???? That is a level of Tool that I pray does not exist, I dont think the Japanese in general would resort to that. Not quit sure bout the US



Chrizum on 27 April 2010
oniyide said:
@masschamber Whoa there, buddy. are you saying that there are people who are so bias that they would spend money on a game soley to increase sales for there favored platform over another???? That is a level of Tool that I pray does not exist, I dont think the Japanese in general would resort to that. Not quit sure bout the US

It happns backwards in the Netherlands all the time: people pirating games just so they don't support the developers (mostly Nintendo, also games like Call of Duty etc.)



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jarrod on 27 April 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:

1. PS2 slims account for nearly 50% of all PS2 sales, I'd say "the majority" of PS2 consoles are actually equipped for online.  I'd also say the majority of Wii's aren't "equipped" to play MHG, given it's only playable with a CC (Tri can use Wiimote+nunchuk though).

Online play was pretty common on latter day PS2 as well, even in Japan.  Capcom alone had a ton of titles that managed it (CVS2, MVC2, 3rd Strike, Monster Hunter 1/G/2, RE Outbreak 1/2, auto modellista, etc, etc) and even had their own all encompassing KDDI service to cover it (which MHG/3 on Wii still uses today).  

2. I don't disagree, Nintendo's online solution this gen has been awful form nearly every angle.

3. It doubled class ranks, and had tons of new content.  It also released before MH2 was even announced.

Really though, none of this is really all that relevant.  G Wii sold because it was a warm up for Tri (demo!), and the franchise had exploded on PSP. Inherent platform suitablitiy for online play was a complete non-factor in Japan, where "online" is a niche factor even among MoHun fans.

 

 

And to core Wii game sales, TYPICAL core sales on Wii work both ways.  As in they're TYPICALLY not great, and TYPICALLY not awful.  They're TYPICALLY rare situations, both ways.

1. Well I guess neither of us can prove what the majority owns, but the PS2 online community would have been much larger had the PS2 been eqipped with an ethernet port on day one. Also you'll agree that the amount of people playing console online games has changed greatly in the last 5 years. Many core gamers missed out on playing PS2 online because they had the fat unit. Having to buy the BBA hinders many from playing online.

3. Well it wasn't a big enough improvment apparently. Because MH2 sold considerably better.

Like I said, there are a lot of circumstances why MH performed better on the Wii. You're throwing even more on the table. But the increase of online gaming on consoles shoulnd't be ignored.

 

The core sales have been poor enough for developers to give the Wii less core games even with its large userbase. Bear in mind I'm saying LESS. I'm not saying its being ignored completely.

1. Actually, considering it can house a HDD, I'd say the fat PS2 is generally better equipped for online gaming.  I'm sure Square was rather pissed with the slim cutting off FFXI sales at the knees.  Honestly though, I don't think buying a $30 BBA is that much of a limiting factor for MoHun, no more so than buying a $20 CC.

3. MH2 was a whole new game, and released after the franchise started gaining traction on PSP.  Cute strawman though.

And I don't think you really understand what a non-factor online is in Japan, and that it's certainly not the secret to MoHun's record success (local co-cop is).  The fact that an online focused console game even sold a million units in Japan is staggering, and probably something that won't be repeated this gen (unless Wii sees MH3G or MH4).

 

Core sales on Wii are a chicken/egg scenario, for a wide variety of reasons.  Which came first, mediocre sales or mediocre support?  So far as I can tell, the AAA batting average is 100% (MH3) though, which goes to show if 3rd parties put in the effort, they'll get the return.



oniyide on 27 April 2010

@Chirzum oh yeah i know about the crazy pirating but i was talking more along the lines of someone getting a multiplat game for one system for the purpose of sticking it to another system, as that guy suggested with NMHs people bought it for HD consoles just to outdo the Wii version



masschamber on 27 April 2010
oniyide said:
@Chirzum oh yeah i know about the crazy pirating but i was talking more along the lines of someone getting a multiplat game for one system for the purpose of sticking it to another system, as that guy suggested with NMHs people bought it for HD consoles just to outdo the Wii version

I'm sure they exist I know of 2 guys importing it because they wanted it to outsell the wii version



I HAVE A DOUBLE DRAGON CAB IN MY KITCHEN!!!!!!

NOW A PUNISHER CAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Puggsly on 28 April 2010
jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:

1. PS2 slims account for nearly 50% of all PS2 sales, I'd say "the majority" of PS2 consoles are actually equipped for online.  I'd also say the majority of Wii's aren't "equipped" to play MHG, given it's only playable with a CC (Tri can use Wiimote+nunchuk though).

Online play was pretty common on latter day PS2 as well, even in Japan.  Capcom alone had a ton of titles that managed it (CVS2, MVC2, 3rd Strike, Monster Hunter 1/G/2, RE Outbreak 1/2, auto modellista, etc, etc) and even had their own all encompassing KDDI service to cover it (which MHG/3 on Wii still uses today).  

2. I don't disagree, Nintendo's online solution this gen has been awful form nearly every angle.

3. It doubled class ranks, and had tons of new content.  It also released before MH2 was even announced.

Really though, none of this is really all that relevant.  G Wii sold because it was a warm up for Tri (demo!), and the franchise had exploded on PSP. Inherent platform suitablitiy for online play was a complete non-factor in Japan, where "online" is a niche factor even among MoHun fans.

 

 

And to core Wii game sales, TYPICAL core sales on Wii work both ways.  As in they're TYPICALLY not great, and TYPICALLY not awful.  They're TYPICALLY rare situations, both ways.

1. Well I guess neither of us can prove what the majority owns, but the PS2 online community would have been much larger had the PS2 been eqipped with an ethernet port on day one. Also you'll agree that the amount of people playing console online games has changed greatly in the last 5 years. Many core gamers missed out on playing PS2 online because they had the fat unit. Having to buy the BBA hinders many from playing online.

3. Well it wasn't a big enough improvment apparently. Because MH2 sold considerably better.

Like I said, there are a lot of circumstances why MH performed better on the Wii. You're throwing even more on the table. But the increase of online gaming on consoles shoulnd't be ignored.

 

The core sales have been poor enough for developers to give the Wii less core games even with its large userbase. Bear in mind I'm saying LESS. I'm not saying its being ignored completely.

1. Actually, considering it can house a HDD, I'd say the fat PS2 is generally better equipped for online gaming.  I'm sure Square was rather pissed with the slim cutting off FFXI sales at the knees.  Honestly though, I don't think buying a $30 BBA is that much of a limiting factor for MoHun, no more so than buying a $20 CC.

3. MH2 was a whole new game, and released after the franchise started gaining traction on PSP.  Cute strawman though.

And I don't think you really understand what a non-factor online is in Japan, and that it's certainly not the secret to MoHun's record success (local co-cop is).  The fact that an online focused console game even sold a million units in Japan is staggering, and probably something that won't be repeated this gen (unless Wii sees MH3G or MH4).

 

Core sales on Wii are a chicken/egg scenario, for a wide variety of reasons.  Which came first, mediocre sales or mediocre support?  So far as I can tell, the AAA batting average is 100% (MH3) though, which goes to show if 3rd parties put in the effort, they'll get the return.

1. Technically you could say the fat is better because of the HDD support. Assuming you're willing to drop all that money. But Final Fantasy XI was the only game worth having the HDD for. I assume Sony removed it because too few devlopers and consumers took advantage of it. Also, it was used for piracy.

Like I said, the BBA just isn't as practical as a Classic Controller. The Wii, PS3 and 360 would also have less people online if you had to buy a BBA. Or in the PS2's case, if only half the consoles had a BBA.

3. My point was MHG wasn't a new game. So its not much of surprise it didn't get big sales. MH2 was a new game and it received much more interest. Also, more people now had broadband ready PS2 consoles.

Its not staggering to me at all. Monster Hunter on the PSP was an incredible success. The Wii version pulled in a fraction of that. It might have been even more successful on the PS3. Who knows? I don't find it staggering, it just shows how the market has changed. FFXIV might pull in some impressive numbers as well.

 

The Wii has other 3rd party AAA games. RE4, CoD games, and uhh... I'm not sure where Tales of games stand. I guess if you only own a Wii, you aren't very familiar with AAA anyhow. Its nice owning a HD console, they have new AAA games every month.



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jarrod on 28 April 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:
Mr Puggsly said:
jarrod said:

1. PS2 slims account for nearly 50% of all PS2 sales, I'd say "the majority" of PS2 consoles are actually equipped for online.  I'd also say the majority of Wii's aren't "equipped" to play MHG, given it's only playable with a CC (Tri can use Wiimote+nunchuk though).

Online play was pretty common on latter day PS2 as well, even in Japan.  Capcom alone had a ton of titles that managed it (CVS2, MVC2, 3rd Strike, Monster Hunter 1/G/2, RE Outbreak 1/2, auto modellista, etc, etc) and even had their own all encompassing KDDI service to cover it (which MHG/3 on Wii still uses today).  

2. I don't disagree, Nintendo's online solution this gen has been awful form nearly every angle.

3. It doubled class ranks, and had tons of new content.  It also released before MH2 was even announced.

Really though, none of this is really all that relevant.  G Wii sold because it was a warm up for Tri (demo!), and the franchise had exploded on PSP. Inherent platform suitablitiy for online play was a complete non-factor in Japan, where "online" is a niche factor even among MoHun fans.

 

 

And to core Wii game sales, TYPICAL core sales on Wii work both ways.  As in they're TYPICALLY not great, and TYPICALLY not awful.  They're TYPICALLY rare situations, both ways.

1. Well I guess neither of us can prove what the majority owns, but the PS2 online community would have been much larger had the PS2 been eqipped with an ethernet port on day one. Also you'll agree that the amount of people playing console online games has changed greatly in the last 5 years. Many core gamers missed out on playing PS2 online because they had the fat unit. Having to buy the BBA hinders many from playing online.

3. Well it wasn't a big enough improvment apparently. Because MH2 sold considerably better.

Like I said, there are a lot of circumstances why MH performed better on the Wii. You're throwing even more on the table. But the increase of online gaming on consoles shoulnd't be ignored.

 

The core sales have been poor enough for developers to give the Wii less core games even with its large userbase. Bear in mind I'm saying LESS. I'm not saying its being ignored completely.

1. Actually, considering it can house a HDD, I'd say the fat PS2 is generally better equipped for online gaming.  I'm sure Square was rather pissed with the slim cutting off FFXI sales at the knees.  Honestly though, I don't think buying a $30 BBA is that much of a limiting factor for MoHun, no more so than buying a $20 CC.

3. MH2 was a whole new game, and released after the franchise started gaining traction on PSP.  Cute strawman though.

And I don't think you really understand what a non-factor online is in Japan, and that it's certainly not the secret to MoHun's record success (local co-cop is).  The fact that an online focused console game even sold a million units in Japan is staggering, and probably something that won't be repeated this gen (unless Wii sees MH3G or MH4).

 

Core sales on Wii are a chicken/egg scenario, for a wide variety of reasons.  Which came first, mediocre sales or mediocre support?  So far as I can tell, the AAA batting average is 100% (MH3) though, which goes to show if 3rd parties put in the effort, they'll get the return.

1. Technically you could say the fat is better because of the HDD support. Assuming you're willing to drop all that money. But Final Fantasy XI was the only game worth having the HDD for. I assume Sony removed it because too few devlopers and consumers took advantage of it. Also, it was used for piracy.

Like I said, the BBA just isn't as practical as a Classic Controller. The Wii, PS3 and 360 would also have less people online if you had to buy a BBA. Or in the PS2's case, if only half the consoles had a BBA.

3. My point was MHG wasn't a new game. So its not much of surprise it didn't get big sales. MH2 was a new game and it received much more interest. Also, more people now had broadband ready PS2 consoles.

Its not staggering to me at all. Monster Hunter on the PSP was an incredible success. The Wii version pulled in a fraction of that. It might have been even more successful on the PS3. Who knows? I don't find it staggering, it just shows how the market has changed. FFXIV might pull in some impressive numbers as well.

 

The Wii has other 3rd party AAA games. RE4, CoD games, and uhh... I'm not sure where Tales of games stand. I guess if you only own a Wii, you aren't very familiar with AAA anyhow. Its nice owning a HD console, they have new AAA games every month.

1. Well, put it this way; you can play MHG on PS2 without a BBA, you can't play MHG on Wii without a CC.

And yeah, it is staggering.  The PSP games (1) aren't online and (2) are free for co-op, while MH3 is subscription based.  MH3 would've been more successful only if it (1) had local co-op as well and (2) was free online.  And honestly, it wouldn't have done any better on PS3 either.

 

I've had a 360 since spring 2005 (the promise of Dead Rising and Lost Planet pushed me over the edge actually).  You pretty obviously have never touched a Monster Hunter game though... tell you what, if Frontier makes it over here, I'll show you the ropes.