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Forums - General Discussion - The Real Cause of Islamic Fundamentalism is Hitler.

MrBubbles on 24 April 2010

well the thread title is pretty much the title of the news article, so you should take it up with the telegraph.



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Sqrl on 24 April 2010
MrBubbles said:
well the thread title is pretty much the title of the news article, so you should take it up with the telegraph.

Yeah I saw that...not really sure what they were thinking honestly.  The content of the article doesn't support their assertion.

The article basically says Nazi propaganda stoked existing tensions and hatreds for their own purposes. 

....Still it's pretty interesting.
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MontanaHatchet on 24 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
I wonder why Hitler never rolled into the Middle East. He could of taken it easily... the area was pro-nazi due to British mistreatment and it offered plenty of Oil.

Also it presented the perfect underbelly attack to Russia.

They did.

I don't know if you would call it "rolling in" (which I assume means invasion), but they definitely made moves in the Middle East.



 

 

Carl on 24 April 2010
ManusJustus said:
Carl2291 said:
I'm not going to even read this. I'm just going to say...

Muslims and Jews have been at war for hundreds of years.

No they haven't.  Conflict between Jewsand Muslim didn't start until this century with the founding of Israel.  Before that, Jews lived peacefully alongside Muslims, Jews even fled Europe and moved to Arab countries because of Christian persecution during the Dark Ages.

I do think the mechanism for Germans hating Jews and Muslims hating Jews is the same.  After WWI, radical Germans needed someone to blame for its embarassing loss of power, and the Jewish minority was an easy target.  For radical Muslims, they need someone to blame for their fall from power, specifically the Ottoman Empire which was the last powerful Islamic state, and the founding of Israel made targeting the Jewish minority even easier.

That's why there are things going on NOWADAYS.

The Qur'an, if i remember correctly, even encourages Muslims to attack Jews if they don't convert to Islam.



                            

Kasz216 on 24 April 2010
Carl2291 said:
ManusJustus said:
Carl2291 said:
I'm not going to even read this. I'm just going to say...

Muslims and Jews have been at war for hundreds of years.

No they haven't.  Conflict between Jewsand Muslim didn't start until this century with the founding of Israel.  Before that, Jews lived peacefully alongside Muslims, Jews even fled Europe and moved to Arab countries because of Christian persecution during the Dark Ages.

I do think the mechanism for Germans hating Jews and Muslims hating Jews is the same.  After WWI, radical Germans needed someone to blame for its embarassing loss of power, and the Jewish minority was an easy target.  For radical Muslims, they need someone to blame for their fall from power, specifically the Ottoman Empire which was the last powerful Islamic state, and the founding of Israel made targeting the Jewish minority even easier.

That's why there are things going on NOWADAYS.

The Qur'an, if i remember correctly, even encourages Muslims to attack Jews if they don't convert to Islam.

I don't seem to recall that.  What I remember the Qu'ran saying was... and I'm pharaphrasing here....


"Jews and Christians are cool, they're misguided but our brothers.  Try and convert them, but treat them fairly... fuck everybody else, if your in a war."

The thing about the Qu'ran is that it isn't entirely "future proof" some of the books in it were meant only for specific times in which they were written. 



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Millennium on 24 April 2010

It is true that a lot of evil in today's world can be laid at Hitler's feet. But honestly, attributing the contemporary false jihad in the Middle East to Hitler's work is more than a bit of a stretch. The Islamic world's treatment of the Jews has seldom if ever lived up to the ideals set forth in the Koran, but Hitler died years before the current conflict began. I've no doubt that he would have tried to court the assistance of the Middle East, but he failed, and the current conflict is a separate issue.



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Carl on 24 April 2010
Kasz216 said:
Carl2291 said:
ManusJustus said:
Carl2291 said:
I'm not going to even read this. I'm just going to say...

Muslims and Jews have been at war for hundreds of years.

No they haven't.  Conflict between Jewsand Muslim didn't start until this century with the founding of Israel.  Before that, Jews lived peacefully alongside Muslims, Jews even fled Europe and moved to Arab countries because of Christian persecution during the Dark Ages.

I do think the mechanism for Germans hating Jews and Muslims hating Jews is the same.  After WWI, radical Germans needed someone to blame for its embarassing loss of power, and the Jewish minority was an easy target.  For radical Muslims, they need someone to blame for their fall from power, specifically the Ottoman Empire which was the last powerful Islamic state, and the founding of Israel made targeting the Jewish minority even easier.

That's why there are things going on NOWADAYS.

The Qur'an, if i remember correctly, even encourages Muslims to attack Jews if they don't convert to Islam.

I don't seem to recall that.  What I remember the Qu'ran saying was... and I'm pharaphrasing here....


"Jews and Christians are cool, they're misguided but our brothers.  Try and convert them, but treat them fairly... fuck everybody else, if your in a war."

The thing about the Qu'ran is that it isn't entirely "future proof" some of the books in it were meant only for specific times in which they were written. 

I wasn't 100% positive so i looked it up, this was the first link i found.

http://www.gotquestions.org/jews-arabs.html

"The religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur'an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. The Qur’an also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Qur’an says it was Ishmael. The Qur’an teaches that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (in contradiction to Genesis chapter 22). This debate over who was the son of promise contributes to the hostility today."



                            

badgenome on 24 April 2010
Millennium said:
It is true that a lot of evil in today's world can be laid at Hitler's feet. But honestly, attributing the contemporary false jihad in the Middle East to Hitler's work is more than a bit of a stretch. The Islamic world's treatment of the Jews has seldom if ever lived up to the ideals set forth in the Koran, but Hitler died years before the current conflict began. I've no doubt that he would have tried to court the assistance of the Middle East, but he failed, and the current conflict is a separate issue.

Not true. Amin al-Husseini supported Hitler from the get-go because the Arabs resented so much Jewish immigration to Palestine. Jews had gone from about 10% of the population in 1920 to almost one-third in just a couple of decades, which, of course, is how the conflict began.

I'd agree that it's not Hitler's fault, but he definitely fanned the flames and it's interesting how much lasting influence the Nazis have had on Islamic antisemitism.



Kamal on 24 April 2010

"In fact, for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other. The primary cause of the hostility has a modern origin. After World War II, when the United Nations gave a portion of the land of Israel to the Jewish people, the land was at that time primarily inhabited by Arabs (the Palestinians). Most Arabs protested vehemently against the nation of Israel occupying that land."



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Carl on 24 April 2010
Kamal said:
"In fact, for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other. The primary cause of the hostility has a modern origin. After World War II, when the United Nations gave a portion of the land of Israel to the Jewish people, the land was at that time primarily inhabited by Arabs (the Palestinians). Most Arabs protested vehemently against the nation of Israel occupying that land."

That's the reason for the modern hostilities.