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Forums - General Discussion - The Real Cause of Islamic Fundamentalism is Hitler.

mrstickball said:
ManusJustus said:
mrstickball said:
Lots of sources would disagree with ManusJustus on the animosity between Jews and Muslims being a very new thing:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf15.html

Of course there has been animosity, which has been the norm for minorities throughout history, but not 'war' as was previously stated by someone here.  Jews have gotten a bad rap from almost every culture in history, but before the creation of Israel Jews were better off in Arab countries than Christian European ones.

Also, I'd trust the Jewish Library about as much as I'd trust the Muslim Library.

Now your going back and revising your initial statement.

You said:

No they haven't.  Conflict between Jewsand Muslim didn't start until this century with the founding of Israel.  Before that, Jews lived peacefully alongside Muslims, Jews even fled Europe and moved to Arab countries because of Christian persecution during the Dark Ages.

That is by and far away from 'of course there has been animosity, which has been the norm for minorities throughout history'.

I am not understanding why you'd discredit the article at a Jewish Library only because it seeks to make citations of where and why there has been animosity. Read the entire article, it did a fantastic job of painting times and places that Muslims got very well along with Jews, and when they were slaughtered. Just because it is a Jewish source doesn't mean it should be discredited, especially given the citations it used.

That is wrong.

Conflict - a fight, battle, or struggle, esp. a prolonged struggle; strife

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conflict

Conflict, in the form it was used in my discussion, is more than mistreatment of minorities, which has been present in almost every society since the beginning of time.  If you did the full quote you would see that I was replying to someone who said that Jews and Muslims had been at war for a long period of time, which was inaccurate.



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Doobie_wop said:
ironman said:
ultima said:
Like Carl said, Muslims and Jews have been at war for hundreds of years. And, contrary to popular belief, Muslims aren't always the aggressors.

Can you blame the Jews for being agressors every once in a while, wouldn't you want to mount an offensive against a people that was trying to iradicate you???  Anyway, the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews. Seems to me that was a "holy" book long before Hitler came to power. 

You should probably keep out of this thread since you obviously have no idea what your talking about.

I couple of other people in this thread have already explained part of history of the relationship between Muslims and Jews, I recommend that you go back and read through the thread.

 

 

Hmm, perhaps you should stop perusing the forums and pay more attention to history. What I said was accurate. 



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ironman said:
Doobie_wop said:
ironman said:
ultima said:
Like Carl said, Muslims and Jews have been at war for hundreds of years. And, contrary to popular belief, Muslims aren't always the aggressors.

Can you blame the Jews for being agressors every once in a while, wouldn't you want to mount an offensive against a people that was trying to iradicate you???  Anyway, the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews. Seems to me that was a "holy" book long before Hitler came to power. 

You should probably keep out of this thread since you obviously have no idea what your talking about.

I couple of other people in this thread have already explained part of history of the relationship between Muslims and Jews, I recommend that you go back and read through the thread. 

Hmm, perhaps you should stop perusing the forums and pay more attention to history. What I said was accurate. 

Not at all.  You said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."  But it was pointed out earlier in the thread that the Koran is NOT CLEAR about that subject: 
http://www.gotquestions.org/jews-arabs.html
"The religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur'an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam.



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Final-Fan said:
ironman said:
Doobie_wop said:
ironman said:
ultima said:
Like Carl said, Muslims and Jews have been at war for hundreds of years. And, contrary to popular belief, Muslims aren't always the aggressors.

Can you blame the Jews for being agressors every once in a while, wouldn't you want to mount an offensive against a people that was trying to iradicate you???  Anyway, the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews. Seems to me that was a "holy" book long before Hitler came to power. 

You should probably keep out of this thread since you obviously have no idea what your talking about.

I couple of other people in this thread have already explained part of history of the relationship between Muslims and Jews, I recommend that you go back and read through the thread. 

Hmm, perhaps you should stop perusing the forums and pay more attention to history. What I said was accurate. 

Not at all.  You said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."  But it was pointed out earlier in the thread that the Koran is NOT CLEAR about that subject: 
http://www.gotquestions.org/jews-arabs.html
"The religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur'an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam.

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 



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ironman said:

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 

I want you to do me a favour and go out and google a few events that may just soothe your ignorance. Look up The Crusades, the Inquisition and actually read the bible and then ask yourself if Christians are much better. Every religion has it's extremist who will twist the word's of their own religion so that it suit's their purpose. A great many Christians believe that gay people should be burnt alive, black people should be slaves and that President Obama is the anti Christ.



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Doobie_wop said:
ironman said:

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 

I want you to do me a favour and go out and google a few events that may just soothe your ignorance. Look up The Crusades, the Inquisition and actually read the bible and then ask yourself if Christians are much better. Every religion has it's extremist who will twist the word's of their own religion so that it suit's their purpose. A great many Christians believe that gay people should be burnt alive, black people should be slaves and that President Obama is the anti Christ.

Whoa! So you admit I'm right? I know other religions have their dark moments...but that's not the conversation here is it? This conversation is about Jewish/Muslim relations. If you wish to discuss other religions that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic, start your own thread. In the future I would refrain from insulting other members, the mods tend not to like that.



Past Avatar picture!!!

Don't forget your helmet there, Master Chief!

ironman said:
Final-Fan said:
ironman said:
Hmm, perhaps you should stop perusing the forums and pay more attention to history. What I said was accurate. 

Not at all.  You said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."  But it was pointed out earlier in the thread that the Koran is NOT CLEAR about that subject: 
http://www.gotquestions.org/jews-arabs.html
"The religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur'an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam.

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 

Your post doesn't prove anything at all about what we were talking about.  
Again, you said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."
What fanatics believe often has little to do with what the holy book they claim to know the "true" interpretation of really says.  

Also, I disbelieve your anecdote until you show me a source.  It sounds like one of those inevitably false chain emails.  

P.S.  I wouldn't say that doobie was "insulting" you, rather I think he used "ignorant" in the technical sense, i.e. you were ignorant of important facts that he suggested you look up.  



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Final-Fan said:
ironman said:
Final-Fan said:
ironman said:
Hmm, perhaps you should stop perusing the forums and pay more attention to history. What I said was accurate. 

Not at all.  You said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."  But it was pointed out earlier in the thread that the Koran is NOT CLEAR about that subject: 
http://www.gotquestions.org/jews-arabs.html
"The religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur'an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam.

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 

Your post doesn't prove anything at all about what we were talking about.  
Again, you said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."
What fanatics believe often has little to do with what the holy book they claim to know the "true" interpretation of really says.  

Also, I disbelieve your anecdote until you show me a source.  It sounds like one of those inevitably false chain emails.  

No, my post was right on topic, which was the Jewish/Muslim relationship.  What fanatics believe IS that the Coran commands them to kill all Jews, this has been going on for well over 1000 years. If you knew ANYTHING about history, you would be aware of this.

My source is my dad, he frequents a music store right next to the mosque in question, he is on a first name basis with the owner of said music store, he was told this story by the music store owner who frequently talked with the construction crew when they were on break as he had nothing better to do. Go ahead and not believe me, but this stuff happens all the time, you just don't hear about it because it's not PC enough for the media. 



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ironman said:
Final-Fan said:
ironman said:
Final-Fan said:
ironman said:
Hmm, perhaps you should stop perusing the forums and pay more attention to history. What I said was accurate. 

Not at all.  You said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."  But it was pointed out earlier in the thread that the Koran is NOT CLEAR about that subject: 
http://www.gotquestions.org/jews-arabs.html
"The religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Qur'an contains somewhat contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. At one point it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brothers and at another point commands Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam.

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 

Your post doesn't prove anything at all about what we were talking about.  
Again, you said "the Coran makes it quite clear that Muslims are to kill all Jews."
What fanatics believe often has little to do with what the holy book they claim to know the "true" interpretation of really says.  

Also, I disbelieve your anecdote until you show me a source.  It sounds like one of those inevitably false chain emails.  

No, my post was right on topic, which was the Jewish/Muslim relationship.  What fanatics believe IS that the Coran commands them to kill all Jews, this has been going on for well over 1000 years. If you knew ANYTHING about history, you would be aware of this.

My source is my dad, he frequents a music store right next to the mosque in question, he is on a first name basis with the owner of said music store, he was told this story by the music store owner who frequently talked with the construction crew when they were on break as he had nothing better to do. Go ahead and not believe me, but this stuff happens all the time, you just don't hear about it because it's not PC enough for the media. 

NO NO NO
WHAT YOU SAID WAS "THE CORAN MAKES IT QUITE CLEAR THAT MUSLIMS ARE TO KILL ALL JEWS"  
DO YOU STAND BY THIS STATEMENT OR NOT?  

This has nothing to do with whether there exist fanatical antisemitic Muslims who believe that their hatred is supported by their religion, any more than it has to do with similar Christian or Jewish groups (as you pointed out to Doobie_wop).   

And if you are planning to dodge the question by claiming I am being too narrow in my criticism of your post, I can only say that this is an extremely important point that I want to resolve separately.  And, most importantly, resolve.   

As for your third-hand anecdote, I am not going to accuse anybody of making anything up, but I think it's entirely possible that there was a little more that might have happened to cause the outburst (for instance, if the construction crew was being unknowingly offensive, that would hardly make it into their retelling), and the outburst (or entire story) may have been exaggerated or distorted by any or all of the parties that transmitted the story, in the way that such gossip tends to do.  But speculation is useless as far as determining the truth of the matter goes.  



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

ironman said:
Doobie_wop said:
ironman said:

Hmm, Ok so there was an Incident in Rochester MN that proves the opposite of what you are saying. A few years back a mosque in downtown was being renovated. A gentleman on the contractors team had mentioned he was Jewish. Upon hearing this, a young Muslim who could barely speak English, grabbed a shovel and ran at the guy saying "I kill you! I kill you!" this is not isolated...the Coran can be foggy as you want to make it out to be. The fact is, a great many Muslims DO believe the portion of the Coran that commands them to kill all Jews. 

I want you to do me a favour and go out and google a few events that may just soothe your ignorance. Look up The Crusades, the Inquisition and actually read the bible and then ask yourself if Christians are much better. Every religion has it's extremist who will twist the word's of their own religion so that it suit's their purpose. A great many Christians believe that gay people should be burnt alive, black people should be slaves and that President Obama is the anti Christ.

Whoa! So you admit I'm right? I know other religions have their dark moments...but that's not the conversation here is it? This conversation is about Jewish/Muslim relations. If you wish to discuss other religions that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic, start your own thread. In the future I would refrain from insulting other members, the mods tend not to like that.

I never insulted you, I'm educating you. You used one example about a bad muslim and then used that example to generalise all muslims. I then gave an example of extremist from other religions which act in the same way, my example showed that the religion in question isn't to blame but the certain mindsets of people are to blame. Your just discriminating against a whole section of the world just because you watched a few bad segments on your local news broadcast.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752