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EA/DICE mocks critics of BFV at launch party

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KManX89 said:
Baddman said:
gamers sure do find the stupidest things to get upset about so what if there's females in a ww2 game

Then why not include Resistance women in the game, you know, women who were actually in WW2? But nope, gotta rewrite history and call people uneducated and act like conceited jackasses all in an effort to appease people who won't buy our game, anyway! 

I guar-damn-tee you if they made their own original modern day shooter with a cricket bat-wielding prosthetic-armed woman, there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash as this game is getting, but keep pretending this is about "hating inclusivity". 

I'm not pretending anything its stupid to get upset over a game having a female character no matter the time period.  Its a videogame



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Jaxyfoo said:

I am torn on this debate, because I generally back equality and progression. However this whole incident is part of some crazy rewriting of history in a way which is Absolutely wrong full stop. Women fought in every capacity going further back, and in some countries did indeed have limited frontline combat in the past two wars.

Most of the key players in the second world war banned women's frontline combat. That ban has only been lifted within the last few years in most of these countries. 2016 in the UK. Women provided lots of secondary roles. Anti aircraft guns, medical care, intelligence, engineering and good support work. To celebrate that work would be fine. But to rewrite history for the sake of pilot correctness is a lie. It is more political incorrectness. I won't support falsification of the truth to reflect current values in any form. We are in the process of killing our own human knowledge base based on agendas.

They should have changed the time period of set the game in a Wolfenstein style alternative reality. There is a huge disconnect between gaming companies. There are too many using horrible practices to suit the men in suits and PR departments over the gaming fans. This has worked moderately for a few years. Now with the internet having more direct input people's lives, people are being educated how wrong these practices are. The companies who are the worst here will kill themselves instead of changing. I just hope that when we come out the other side gaming has become a nice honest environment again in every way. Sadly when these companies begin to downsize and cut loved projects, they will blame the fans for voting against bad practice by not giving them support for it. I wish mobile gaming had never become a thing, because too many of the models came from there. It is destroying gaming for traditional gamers.

But the SJW topic is just misleading.

BFV is full with issues, a small amount of maps, it feels like a downgraded game compared to other BF games. You may check Angry Joes review it helps to understand the issues with the game.

EA is just spinning the issues around.






My take on this is that DICE is free to do whatever they wish with their games. If they want a bunch of women on the frontlines of World War 2 then go for it. People are entitled to their opinions. Some people want to see that in games. Others don't. Neither side is actually wrong for wanting the game to be one thing or another. The question shouldn't be "who is wrong for wanting the game a certain way" but rather "will DICE's decision to take this direction with their game hurt them"?

Looking at how badly Battlefield 5 was behind Black Ops 4 in pre-orders months ago (85% behind compared to Battlefield 1 being ahead of Infinite Warfare) and the report that physical sales of this latest entry were well below those of the previous, seemingly to the point where one cannot reasonably argue that digital sales made up for it and still well below Call of Duty, it seems to me that DICE may have hurt themselves with this decision. The critical reception of the game is lower than any main entries in the franchise with many complaints ranging from a lack of content to a fair amount of technical issues. This isn't going to help.

There also seems to be a complete lack of the customization options involving prosthetic limbs that raised some eyebrows from the initial trailer. So not only did DICE disregard the vocal critics of the community to some extent but they then failed to implement something those on the other side of the aisle praised them for. Whether this will eventually find its way in is unknown but there is certainly the sense that DICE backtracked on some of its more arguably absurd cosmetic decisions. This tells me that DICE definitely felt the pinch and while they conceded a bit for now, they're still not prepared to admit they may have made a bad choice.

They may very well want to re-evaluate whether patting themselves on the back for attempting to be inclusive is worth losing that much market share and income. If doing this was supposed to bring more people into the fold but ultimately ended up losing them a ton of sales then questions should be raised. Why didn't the people who supported this make up for the people who didn't? If such a thing was so important and such a barrier to entry for people then why are sales so far down compared to the previous title and the competitor? Are the people who we disregarded such a significant portion of our income? Is it worth us losing a lot of sales to take our games in that direction? Either they press on with this new philosophy for their game design and hope it works out or they abandon it and go back to making games the way it seems their currently established fanbase prefers.

All that being said, something I touched on earlier in my post is the REAL issue with Battlefield 5 at this point is not even what the reasons behind the decrease in initial sales were. Rather, how the game has so many issues for those who bought it. When you take an already much lower base of players and subject them to a game lacking in content and with a number of technical issues... well... DICE may not be able to recover this game's already tarnished image. The first update they just released is causing all servers to have a moderate amount of ping. At least last I checked. Your biggest competitor had its Battle Royale mode on Day 1, has been praised for it, and is already expanding on it. Meanwhile, you tell your customers to wait 4 months for your version of it and with hardly any info on it. Black Ops 4 has enjoyed some pretty good press. Battlefield 5 has been caked in negativity since its reveal. This is DICE dropping the ball at nearly every turn.

I don't understand how EA/DICE doesn't see the answer to this. All they have to do is look at the COD rotation. Have 2 teams, and have one team create unrealistic war games that are based on real wars or completely fabricated, and have another continue on with the more realistic immersive games they've been making as of lately. Rotate every so often. Call both Battlefield if you want, but make it clear with a subtitle that one series is fairy tale land and the other is history at it's finest, no messing around.

If EA doesn't want to do this, and expects their audience to change, or hopes do draw in a new audience, then good luck. Why not put in a little more effort so you can easily have your cake and eat it too? If your so sure your new direction of Battlefield will sell well enough to make it worth it that is.



Initial 8th gen console wars as explained by The Matrix
XB - Did you know that the XB1 was designed to be a perfect multimedia device? Where none shared, where everyone would use Kinect. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire 360 catalogue was lost. Some believed we lacked the console gamer logic to describe the perfect system, but we believed that, as a community, console gamers define their reality through waiting and micro-transactions. The imperfect hardware was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the XB1 was redesigned to this: the XB1S and XB1X, the peak of console 4k capability.
PS - You're more attractive than I thought. I can see why they like you. - Who? - Not too bright though… You know why Cerny was hired to design the PS4? – Yes. – So, what do you think? Do you think you’re the One? – Honestly, we don’t know. - Do you know what that phrase means? It’s gamer lingo for know thyself. I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Being the One is a lot like being the PS3. No one needs tell you that you screwed up, you just know it, through and through, hardware to exclusives.
Nin - Ok, now I'm supposed to say, hmm, that's interesting, but...then you say...- But what? - But...you already know what I'm going to tell you. - I'm not the Wii. - Sorry tablet. You got the gimmick, but it looks like you're waiting for something. - What? - Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go...   /  Unfortunately no one can be told what the Wii U is. You have to experience it for yourself. 
PC - Welcome to the x86 real gaming world. 
// //
twintail said:
Medisti said:

I like the option to play as females. It's fiction. Taking liberties is the whole point of fiction.

But, come on. EA's statements and handling of the entire release have been nothing short of abhorrent. What PR is "If you don't like it, don't buy it"? A lot of people who were fine with the game are put off by that attitude. "This company wants me to give them my money? No thank you. They're rude."

That is a valid point. How they have handled the PR has been questionable. 

 

KManX89 said:

The problem is that it's based on a real event. If EA/DICE wanted to make their own original modern shooter with a cricket bat-wielding prosthetic-armed woman, there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash. Granted, there might still be some sexist assholes ripping the game a new one, but nowhere near the level of scathing BFV received, I wonder why.

Operative word is here 'based'. "Based on a real events" means that the real event is the starting point for whatever story or design they choose to make. Not that it reflects said real events as accurately as possible. 

That said, we are talking about a game where you can be revived in MP... real it isn't.

Yeah. The whole point of fiction is the ability to make your own version. There's plenty of alternate history fiction where all kinds of crazy stuff happens and no one complains about that.

Just don't lump us all in with the people who are mad because "they put womxn in mah Battlefield." Those people exist, don't get me wrong. But there's more nuance to it than that. I really hope companies learn that treating your customers this way because a small subset of them is terrible ends up doing much more harm than good. Look at Ghostbusters 2016. My mom refused to see it because the actors and directors were being very similar. Is my mother sexist? :p

Last edited by Medisti - on 05 December 2018

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That's terrible shit tbh, honestly look at the stuff on that board which is being put there to mock and consider it was anything other gender and colour... if that sign read "black men, black men, black men" or anything negative towards woman there would be cries of racism from the highest powers going, but nope... can't be racist against White males, you can only be racist against poor discriminated minorities.

Depressing. My interest in all things EA declines with something like this.

Fancy watching me Flawless Kill a Remix boss of Rogue Legacy? (Ponce De freon)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC0yCu2iY2o

Baddman said:
KManX89 said:

Then why not include Resistance women in the game, you know, women who were actually in WW2? But nope, gotta rewrite history and call people uneducated and act like conceited jackasses all in an effort to appease people who won't buy our game, anyway! 

I guar-damn-tee you if they made their own original modern day shooter with a cricket bat-wielding prosthetic-armed woman, there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash as this game is getting, but keep pretending this is about "hating inclusivity". 

I'm not pretending anything its stupid to get upset over a game having a female character no matter the time period.  Its a videogame

The issue is that instead of saying that, they chose to say "If you don't like it, then you're an uneducated nazi, so don't buy our game". Their handling of the issue was way worse than the issue itself. And surprisingly, the gamers they said "don't buy our game" to, well... Didn't buy the game. Too bad it was a pretty big part of their userbase.

And this childish insulting reaction at their launch party, ignoring the result of their PR fail and choosing to keep insisting, just prove that someone should get fired. 



flashfire926 said:

Game was down 85% in pre-orders, compared to Black Ops 4, then 65% down in sales UK when comparing the first two weeks of battlefield 1 to 5. Target and Best Buy dropped the game's price to $30 just a week after launch. As a result EA's stock is also 40% down compared to E3 time.

Keep digging your own grave, DICE. For once I'm going to be clapping if a studio goes belly up.

This is exactly what happens when you pander to an audience that doesn't even play games.

It's not even that the group do not play games... but it's a large group which definitely isn't as large a portion of their customer base as those that DICE are firing shit at here and should be more worried about, this whole thing to me would be like if McDonalds was to launch a campaign mocking the working class and poorer end of society in a bid to please suit wearing businessmen, which I'm going to guess make up around 1% or less than their total income, it's not surprise in the slightest that when you mock your main customer base then you'll lose money.

Outside of the issues introduced with by strong arming this and creating a whole host of negative PR for themselves, as others have said... anyone that is buying the game and reviewing it are also finding that it has a whole host of other issues regarding content and gameplay so the game should fail but not fail in a way that EA can try and turn around and point the finger at "white males" for ruining it, when they went on stage and said "we don't want your money"



Fancy watching me Flawless Kill a Remix boss of Rogue Legacy? (Ponce De freon)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC0yCu2iY2o

Faelco said:
Baddman said:

I'm not pretending anything its stupid to get upset over a game having a female character no matter the time period.  Its a videogame

The issue is that instead of saying that, they chose to say "If you don't like it, then you're an uneducated nazi, so don't buy our game". Their handling of the issue was way worse than the issue itself. And surprisingly, the gamers they said "don't buy our game" to, well... Didn't buy the game. Too bad it was a pretty big part of their userbase.

And this childish insulting reaction at their launch party, ignoring the result of their PR fail and choosing to keep insisting, just prove that someone should get fired. 

I agree the PR was bad but this situation still boggles my mind that people would complain over meaningless things like this(don't take this as me defending EA's bad PR but the fact it was ever a complaint to begin with.)



While many of the game's critics deserve this (most of the outrage over the game was molehill mountaineering at its best, perpetrated mainly by militant history buffs and anti-SJWs masquerading as militant history buffs), it's not good PR and will only exacerbate the situation.

Then again, it is EA, and it's hard to feel any sympathy for them regardless of the situation. Even when some criticism of them or their subsidiaries/employees are wrong, that's far outweighed by the amount of valid criticism.