Seriously now. No distinguished black man would have wanted to settle in Bohemia in the 1400's
“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”
No, there's not. You play as a white male who's the son of a blacksmith. It has a set character in a set time period and in a set place. There's not even a character creation feature. There wasn't no blacks or asians in this part of the world in this time period. The devs wanted this game to be historically accurate from the beginning, so that's not an excuse to not include certain groups of minorities in the game. Regardless of the historical accuracy, they don't need to include any group just for the sake of representation.
And I'm not debating that. In fact I said, it's their choice, it's fine.
I just pointed out that if diversity was important to this dev they could have kept the time period, european setting and historic accuracy while still having diverse characters. 'Historic accuracy' is not the right argument here. It's 'We didn't want to.' And that's fine.
That's correct. They had another intention, they wanted to depict the area they live in in a historical interesting time. And their research about that came up with not much diversity (they include people from neighbouring countries though and historically to be expected people from farther away).
Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up.
"But there's also a big problem. There are no people of colour in the game beyond people from the Cuman tribe, a Turkic people from the Eurasian Steppe. The question is, should there be? The game's makerssay they've done years of research and found no conclusive proof there should be, but a historian I spoke to, who specialises in the area, disagrees."
"You just can't know nobody got sick and stayed a longer time," he says. "What if a group of black Africans came through and stayed at an inn and someone got pregnant? Even one night is enough for a pregnancy."
This isn't to say Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a hotbed of racism, because it isn't. The Turkic Cumans speak a different language and are a hostile enemy, which seems like a limited portrayal but no less so than any other war game I can think of. Then again, I'm white, so maybe I've missed things. And racism can take many forms, one of them being exclusion.
"More apparent to me was the back-slapping laddishness revolving around bedding women. I'm pursuing a love story over here, while over there bedding a noble and having one-night stands. That's in addition to my Troubadour perk which makes me even more irresistible to women and lets me use the "bathwenches" for free, which ties into a key mechanic of keeping yourself clean and patched up. It also means I get the Alpha Male buff (+2 to Charisma) because I've been satisfied and apparently it shows. It literally says that. The game's Codex even feels the need to describe the ideal woman of the time: "a thin, pale woman with long blonde hair, small rounded breasts, relatively narrow hips and a narrow waist"."
Reviewers should just keep this kind of crap to themselves. Modern day politics should stay out of gaming in my opinion. Do you agree? What do you think of this review?
I find it disgusting that you did not link to Eurogamer's article or video and resorted to the alt right tactics of pointing to an archive.
I hope mods put in a link to Eurogamer so they can get my click.
Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up.
"But there's also a big problem. There are no people of colour in the game beyond people from the Cuman tribe, a Turkic people from the Eurasian Steppe. The question is, should there be? The game's makerssay they've done years of research and found no conclusive proof there should be, but a historian I spoke to, who specialises in the area, disagrees."
"You just can't know nobody got sick and stayed a longer time," he says. "What if a group of black Africans came through and stayed at an inn and someone got pregnant? Even one night is enough for a pregnancy."
This isn't to say Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a hotbed of racism, because it isn't. The Turkic Cumans speak a different language and are a hostile enemy, which seems like a limited portrayal but no less so than any other war game I can think of. Then again, I'm white, so maybe I've missed things. And racism can take many forms, one of them being exclusion.
"More apparent to me was the back-slapping laddishness revolving around bedding women. I'm pursuing a love story over here, while over there bedding a noble and having one-night stands. That's in addition to my Troubadour perk which makes me even more irresistible to women and lets me use the "bathwenches" for free, which ties into a key mechanic of keeping yourself clean and patched up. It also means I get the Alpha Male buff (+2 to Charisma) because I've been satisfied and apparently it shows. It literally says that. The game's Codex even feels the need to describe the ideal woman of the time: "a thin, pale woman with long blonde hair, small rounded breasts, relatively narrow hips and a narrow waist"."
Reviewers should just keep this kind of crap to themselves. Modern day politics should stay out of gaming in my opinion. Do you agree? What do you think of this review?
I find it disgusting that you did not link to Eurogamer's article or video and resorted to the alt right tactics of pointing to an archive.
I hope mods put in a link to Eurogamer so they can get my click.
If I'm not wrong he put the link originally in the post, then substituted it for a link to not generate traffic to sjw lunatics. But you probably can find it easily using google or in eurogamer website so they can have your click.
As some guy who's actually from Bohemia commented on EG - town is not on that route, route went north of that region. That historian is really talking out of his ass and obviously knows very little about Central Europe...and EG is well known for their SJW crap, especially to boost their traffic, so let's not pretend that this is anything but that.
Thats interesting, I never thought of that, maybe some of those crazy articles are with the objective of generating traffic? Hum... in theory it works since a lot of people will be guided there...
Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up.
"But there's also a big problem. There are no people of colour in the game beyond people from the Cuman tribe, a Turkic people from the Eurasian Steppe. The question is, should there be? The game's makerssay they've done years of research and found no conclusive proof there should be, but a historian I spoke to, who specialises in the area, disagrees."
"You just can't know nobody got sick and stayed a longer time," he says. "What if a group of black Africans came through and stayed at an inn and someone got pregnant? Even one night is enough for a pregnancy."
This isn't to say Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a hotbed of racism, because it isn't. The Turkic Cumans speak a different language and are a hostile enemy, which seems like a limited portrayal but no less so than any other war game I can think of. Then again, I'm white, so maybe I've missed things. And racism can take many forms, one of them being exclusion.
"More apparent to me was the back-slapping laddishness revolving around bedding women. I'm pursuing a love story over here, while over there bedding a noble and having one-night stands. That's in addition to my Troubadour perk which makes me even more irresistible to women and lets me use the "bathwenches" for free, which ties into a key mechanic of keeping yourself clean and patched up. It also means I get the Alpha Male buff (+2 to Charisma) because I've been satisfied and apparently it shows. It literally says that. The game's Codex even feels the need to describe the ideal woman of the time: "a thin, pale woman with long blonde hair, small rounded breasts, relatively narrow hips and a narrow waist"."
Reviewers should just keep this kind of crap to themselves. Modern day politics should stay out of gaming in my opinion. Do you agree? What do you think of this review?
I find it disgusting that you did not link to Eurogamer's article or video and resorted to the alt right tactics of pointing to an archive.
I hope mods put in a link to Eurogamer so they can get my click.
You find that disgusting? I sincerely hope that you're joking around.
No map i have looked at suggest the Silk Road was anywhere near Bohemia, but from China through modern day Persia, Arabia, Turkey, Greece and ending in Italy. If someone knows about another map that shows differently then i will gladly be proven wrong.
You contradict yourself on the review that should be to inform customer but also go there to make political agenda. And the criticism to the lack of representation is bullock when the case made is that perhaps there could have been a black person because of reasons.
Do you not think there are people who would be bothered by the fact that very little diversity exists in the game? I mean, to make that assertion, you would have to assume that the reviewer did not exist, which would be a strange argument, to say the least. As such, it can be assumed that his purpose is not to push a political agenda, it is to demonstrate facets of the game that bothered him, as a player of the game and make such facets known to other potential consumers who would likewise be bothered by these aspects.
You are assuming wrong since the way his point was portrayed and sustained is very poorly made. There is clear intention of putting an agenda at play instead of informing customer. Unless you are also assuming customers are dumb and can't infer from "game based on 1400's Bohemia" that there will be white people and male dominant society.
Only people that would have problem with the lack of diversity on the game are the SJW like the reviewer, since all the other wouldn't find it strange that there aren't other ethnics on this game.
JWeinCom said:
DonFerrari said:
And have you gone to the reviewer and also asked for the full source of the historician right? Because at least op gave the link to the original article, while the reviewer almost certainlyedited his text to just portray the points from asingle person that could sustain his flimsy point.
All you've done is suggested the reviewer was dishonest too, which, even if true, would do nothing to justify the OPs dishonest presentation of information.
On that point I would have to agree that two wrongs wouldn't make one right. Still when you read the whole thread you'll see that the reviewer were dishonest or lacked the will to do real research in his attempt to make a point... and also it's clear how bad he portrayed his point as well.
monocle_layton said: Almost like their influence is over exaggerated and only an issue because we keep mentioning them...
How much longer are we actually gonna live in the SJW world? Fucks sake people grow a pair of balls and realize they’re not some superior beings. They’re idiots like any of the other idiots. Just stop giving them the attention they fucking want and maybe we won’t have to keep complaining about these whiny people
Well not sure if they would vanish if we ignored them, but I do agree that society as a whole give them to much attention.
DarthMetalliCube said:
DonFerrari said:
they are as progressive as they are liberal... just they changing the meaning of the words...
And sure political choices and narrative can be part of a game, and even if they want they can make a game that pushes diversity and equality themes, but that is it, if they want. But when SJW make pointless attacks because someone doesn't adhere to their crazy notions it's better, because given enough time they dig their own grave.
Oh for sure, I definitely support diversity in games, hell Overwatch is one of my favorite games lately heh. But yeah at the same time - forcing it upon a game; especially one which all evidence indicate does not call for it, is a slippery slope to Authoritarianism. Much like in other aspects of society, it should be organic, not forced upon.
Totally agree, if the game is portraying the history in an accurate fashion but for some reason I'm totally not ok with the lack of black NPCs or on the sexual abuse against woman on the game I'll just not buy it, not force devs to change history for my sake.
If this was a fantastic word and you were to create your char and there was no option to make a female, black, asian, etc, then a criticism would be valid.
potato_hamster said: How to tell if the complaint is bullshit.
Imagine the game is set in sub-saharan Africa instead. Imagine there are no white people besides one group of people who are represented accurately but not cast in a positive light. There was historical precedence that there were indeed white explorers and other white groups that may have passed through the area at that one point in time but no definitive proof that they did. Do you think the author from Eurogamer would be making a similar complaint about the lack of diversity?
Because I don't.
If not, then they shouldn't be making the comment they did.
From almost all literature, movies, history, etc we have seem the outsider, the invasor, etc, is cast in a bad light to the people that is being invaded since they don't know and sometimes doesn't like the culture and customs from the other side... depending on the story it will change with time for an acceptance and merging if done pacifically or war.
But certainly a game where white people come to massacre and enslave sub saharian africa (even if slaving was mainly done by the tribes fighting one another and selling to white people) saying it is accurate in history (even in a case it wasn't) no one would complain.
SuperNova said:
DonFerrari said:
Nope, again. The way it is (since it would be a very very very specific scenario for it to be historically right, but still have a female protagonist or black NPC) is that they would have to force a situation where that would be accurate... but if someone wants to tell a story using black people it would be more practical to use something from Africa history books.
You fail to see it isn't an excuse, it was a decision to portray a period.
Since you ignored my last reply to you, this is the last one I'm going to give you.
They would not have had to force anything. The historical context is there, they would just have to set their game accordingly. They didn't. Because it wasn't a priority. Those points arent really up to debate.
Games don't just 'happen'. Like you said yourself, there's concious decision making behind all of this. They made the game they wanted to make.
You're failing to see that there's tangible proof that these people existed in Europe at the time. Hence why they could be included in a 'historically accurate' game about the period. By setting it in an area that had very little contact to outside influences, the devs made a concious decision. Maybe they just really wanted to set it there, because they like the area. That does not make them racist or anything, but it does mean that the aerial setting of their game was more important to them than having diversity. See? Decision making.
Pretending like there's anything else going on here is just dishonest and would probably also make for a bad game. They have every right to make this decision. There's no need to hide behind a flimsy argument.
Lastly, we tell stories about extraordinary people because they are interesting. That's how most of all storytelling works, especially hero stories. A game can only benefit from having an interesting cast of characters that face unique challenges.
I haven't ignored any post, you may not have seem the reply to you or I may not have seem your post, if that was the case I'm sorry.
The only thing else happening is you judging their intention without knowing better because "if they really wanted they could have chosen that one story that would have a female protagonist and a lot of important black NPCs" as if their decision was made in a way to prevent black people from appearing on the game.
And I don't buy any shenanigan that for the character to be extraordinary they need any specific gender or race.
Just to clarify this game is historically accurate and contains no fantasy elements. It takes place at 1403 in the kingdom of Bohemia. To be honest, the review is alright until you get to the end of where this silly crap is brought up.
"But there's also a big problem. There are no people of colour in the game beyond people from the Cuman tribe, a Turkic people from the Eurasian Steppe. The question is, should there be? The game's makerssay they've done years of research and found no conclusive proof there should be, but a historian I spoke to, who specialises in the area, disagrees."
"You just can't know nobody got sick and stayed a longer time," he says. "What if a group of black Africans came through and stayed at an inn and someone got pregnant? Even one night is enough for a pregnancy."
This isn't to say Kingdom Come: Deliverance is a hotbed of racism, because it isn't. The Turkic Cumans speak a different language and are a hostile enemy, which seems like a limited portrayal but no less so than any other war game I can think of. Then again, I'm white, so maybe I've missed things. And racism can take many forms, one of them being exclusion.
"More apparent to me was the back-slapping laddishness revolving around bedding women. I'm pursuing a love story over here, while over there bedding a noble and having one-night stands. That's in addition to my Troubadour perk which makes me even more irresistible to women and lets me use the "bathwenches" for free, which ties into a key mechanic of keeping yourself clean and patched up. It also means I get the Alpha Male buff (+2 to Charisma) because I've been satisfied and apparently it shows. It literally says that. The game's Codex even feels the need to describe the ideal woman of the time: "a thin, pale woman with long blonde hair, small rounded breasts, relatively narrow hips and a narrow waist"."
Reviewers should just keep this kind of crap to themselves. Modern day politics should stay out of gaming in my opinion. Do you agree? What do you think of this review?
I find it disgusting that you did not link to Eurogamer's article or video and resorted to the alt right tactics of pointing to an archive.
I hope mods put in a link to Eurogamer so they can get my click.
I'm pretty sure you are joking...
But the original OP had the Eurogamer link, someone sent the archive link to prevent EG from gaining clicks and OP edited the post =p
duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"
melbye said: No map i have looked at suggest the Silk Road was anywhere near Bohemia, but from China through modern day Persia, Arabia, Turkey, Greece and ending in Italy. If someone knows about another map that shows differently then i will gladly be proven wrong.
The map the scholar used... one that if a black guy was sick he could have made a detour from Greece-Italy road all the way to Bohemia.
duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"
