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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A good example of why Sony Consoles always succeed.

S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
Vinther1991 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

No. The Eyetoy and party games did not sell as well as you think. They were profitable and thus Sony kept making more iterations. If Singstar was on the Wii, it would've sold far more than it did on the PS2. Sony makes a ton of games in various different places but one thing i've always hated about them is that they dont try to overly influence gamers to buy them. This is why Microsoft purchased natal which was a more powerful eyetoy rode the casual wave the Nintendo created. Sony fails to boast about every secondary product they have outside of the main console. The Eyetoy was profitable and thus they made another iteration of it. They never oversold their casual motion products. Microsoft showed them what to do with their own idea.

They were multi-million sellers nonetheless and especially stuff like Guitar Hero was very successful on PS2. I don't claim that PS2 had a casual audience nearly as big as the Wii. But it definitely was substantial, and it did myteriously disappear from PS once a certain Nintendo console launched.

The PS2 had a larger casual audience than the Wii, but there was a difference. My point is Nintendo found a new audience who previously had zero interest in gaming, either because the complex controls alienated them. Even though were aware that Sony had a large casual market, lets also take note that casual in the traditional market can mean many things:

A) A consumer who buys one or two games a year (but has varying proficency)

B) A consumer who buys few games and only plays for experience. They dont want a challenge (hence why easy mode is now called casual in most games).

C) Because of Sony, the new casual who buys consoles for their multimedia experience (They bought the PS2 for the DVD, PS3 for Blu Ray and apps, etc). They might pick up a game or two here or there, would any distinct repetition of genre like say...A would.

https://hbr.org/2008/04/nintendo-wiis-growing-market-o

This video and article from harvard business, shows that Nintendo made a simplified product for a wider audience to grasp which would attract those who were formally alienated by the restrictive learning curve of the same tradional gaming which they pioneered. In the post, its what is called "disruptive innovation". They made a simpler product which would circumvent the consitent competition and in that aroused a new market which last gen was dubed the "non-gamer". A lot of peoples non-gaming mom, dad and grandmother owned a Wii. This was previously not a market that was penetrated by the Nintendo or Sony previously.



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curl-6 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:

The mainstream consumers, the guys playing Madden and Guitar Hero and GTA on their PS2, plenty of them got a Wii. Both were the go-to console for those who weren't super into gaming like we are. Throughout last gen in college dorms like mine and in family homes like mos of my friends' and cousins' houses, it was a very common sight to see both a PS2 and a Wii connected to the TV. 

A big chunk of PS2's base was casual, and a lot of those people skipped the PS3 and got a Wii instead.

I will admit that a large chunk of the PS2 base was casual, but we're not talking non-gamer casuals. There are casuals who buy one or two games a year and are fine with that. Im sure some people who had PS2's bought the Wii, but the PS2 in numbers was split right down the middle between the 360 and PS3. The Software sales between the PS2 and 360 and PS3 correlate strongly as well. This is why I keep saying that Nintendo was credited for expanding the market to a larger size than it was the gen previously. The market was never that large. 

Go to the games database on VGChartz and look up the totals of the specific consoles. Rhythm and motion gimmick games were huge on the Wii. They were big on the PS3 and 360 too, but the fact still remains that the consistent market when it cames to yearly purchases and genres were on the PS3 and 360 were stronger for a broader range of games.

The PS3 and 360 only account for the PS2 audience if we assume that none of the gamers that started gaming last gen bought a PS3 or 360, and that's clearly not true. For the mainstream casuals, the guys who don't go on gaming forums, but just buy what's trendy and play it with mates or at parties now and then, Wii was the go-to system, like the PS2 before it.



Miyamotoo on 29 June 2017
Dante9 said:
Jumpin said:

Just to debunk this post. Games of the year based on general consensus (http://www.gamerankings.com/) and sales (http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2017/Global/):

Review scores:
2006 - The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (94.58%)
2007 - Super Mario Galaxy (97.64%)
2008 - Grand Theft Auto IV (97.04%)
2009 - Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (96.43%)
2010 - Super Mario Galaxy 2 (97.35%)
2011 - Batman: Arkham City (95.94%)
2012 - Persona 4 Golden (94.16%)
2013 - Grand Theft Auto V (97.01%)
2014 - Super Smash Bros. for Wii U (92.39%)
2015 - Undertale (94.11%)
2016 - INSIDE (92.81%)
2017 - The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (97.28%)

Sales:
2006 -New Super Mario Bros. (DS) - 8,001,240
2007 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 14,794,664 (#2 was Pokemon Diamond, highest ranked Sony game was Motorstorm, only ranked 17th)
2008 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 21,842,013 (#2 was Mario Kart Wii, GTA 4 ranked 7th place was the highest Sony game)
2009 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 18,788,738 (#2 was Wii Sports Resort, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 was Sony's highest at #8)
2010 - Wii Sports (Wii) - 15,218,276 (#2 was Wii Sports Resort again, Call of Duty again for Sony at #5)
2011 - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (X360) - 12,561,893
2012 - Call of Duty: Black Ops II (X360) - 10,425,836
2013 - Grand Theft Auto V (PS3) - 16,894,054
2014 - Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (3DS) - 7,527,047
2015 - Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 (PS4) - 10,556,687
2016 - Pokemon Sun/Moon (3DS) - 12,028,382
2017 - Horizon: Zero Dawn (PS4) - 2,875,704 (Zelda will be #1 on the next update or two, since Horizon is done selling, and Zelda, currently at 2,837,078, is catching up quickly as it continues to sell as Switch sells).

Review scores for Nintendo games only tell us that Nintendo fans like Nintendo games, duh. The point is that the majority of gamers won't buy the Nintendo system to rate those games in the first place, because the games are not appealing enough to justify buying the system. Most gamers tend to gravitate towards Playstation more or less every generation, one of the reasons being that they know they will get the most extensive library of games, both first and third party. Sure, the Wii was an exception but it was a mostly a gimmick based fad. Had it been up to the Nintendo faithfuls only, we would have seen something closer to the Wii U numbers.

What are you talking about, review scores are based on gaming media critics not based on scores of Nintendo users. Take metacritic where gaming media gives scores, and you will see that list is almost totally same like this above, only difference is Smash Bros. 4. For instance Zelda BotW score is based on 107 critics. Nintendo games have great review scores because they are great games not because Nintendo fans.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/switch/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/all/filtered?year_selected=2010&sort=desc

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/all/filtered?year_selected=2007&sort=desc

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/all/filtered?year_selected=2006&sort=desc



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I will admit that a large chunk of the PS2 base was casual, but we're not talking non-gamer casuals. There are casuals who buy one or two games a year and are fine with that. Im sure some people who had PS2's bought the Wii, but the PS2 in numbers was split right down the middle between the 360 and PS3. The Software sales between the PS2 and 360 and PS3 correlate strongly as well. This is why I keep saying that Nintendo was credited for expanding the market to a larger size than it was the gen previously. The market was never that large. 

Go to the games database on VGChartz and look up the totals of the specific consoles. Rhythm and motion gimmick games were huge on the Wii. They were big on the PS3 and 360 too, but the fact still remains that the consistent market when it cames to yearly purchases and genres were on the PS3 and 360 were stronger for a broader range of games.

The PS3 and 360 only account for the PS2 audience if we assume that none of the gamers that started gaming last gen bought a PS3 or 360, and that's clearly not true. For the mainstream casuals, the guys who don't go on gaming forums, but just buy what's trendy and play it with mates or at parties now and then, Wii was the go-to system, like the PS2 before it.

https://hbr.org/2008/04/nintendo-wiis-growing-market-o

Read up on the new market casual Nintendo opened up known as the "non-gamer" by opening wooing previously alienated consumers of all ages with a simplified motion driven product. Nintendo finally made a product everyone could be proficient with because it was dumbed down and the could enjoy. it was created using what is known as "disruptive innovation".  This explains why Nintendo had high sales but quickly dwindled and paled in comparison to the consistency (especially on NPD) to their competition who have greater purchasing habits. Just because Nintendo sold a 100 million...it doesnt mean it sold majorly to the same market, because the sales say otherwise. The majority of the casuals Nintendo wooed were not interested in long term gaming and even less than the traditional casual. 

This is why the Wii was called lightening in a bottle. It was a gimmick with great marketing at the right time and most likely will not be duplicated anytime soon.



AlfredoTurkey on 29 June 2017

"Best game" is an opinion though lol.



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Errorist76 on 29 June 2017

Another important reason for me is Playstation traditionally goes very well with PC...the perfect combination. XBox has always been kind of redundant if one has a PC, now more than ever!



curl-6 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:

The PS3 and 360 only account for the PS2 audience if we assume that none of the gamers that started gaming last gen bought a PS3 or 360, and that's clearly not true. For the mainstream casuals, the guys who don't go on gaming forums, but just buy what's trendy and play it with mates or at parties now and then, Wii was the go-to system, like the PS2 before it.

https://hbr.org/2008/04/nintendo-wiis-growing-market-o

Read up on the new market casual Nintendo opened up known as the "non-gamer" by opening wooing previously alienated consumersof all ages with a simplified motion driven product. Nintendo final made a product everyone could be proficient with because it was dumbed down and the could enjoy. it was created using what is known as "disruptive innovation".  This explains why Nintendo had high sales but quickly dwindled and paled in comparison to the consistency (especially on NPD) to their competition who have greater purchasing habits. Just because Nintendo sold a 100 million...it doesnt mean it sold majorly to the same market, because the sales say otherwise. The majority of the casuals Nintendo wooed were not interested in long term gaming and even less than the traditional casual. 

Except the Wii didn't only appeal to first time gamers; it was also a very attractive proposition to the traditional casual, the guy who played Guitar Hero on the PS2 with his mates. It was trendy, affordable, popular, the natural choice for the mainstream buyer.



S.T.A.G.E. on 29 June 2017
curl-6 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

https://hbr.org/2008/04/nintendo-wiis-growing-market-o

Read up on the new market casual Nintendo opened up known as the "non-gamer" by opening wooing previously alienated consumersof all ages with a simplified motion driven product. Nintendo final made a product everyone could be proficient with because it was dumbed down and the could enjoy. it was created using what is known as "disruptive innovation".  This explains why Nintendo had high sales but quickly dwindled and paled in comparison to the consistency (especially on NPD) to their competition who have greater purchasing habits. Just because Nintendo sold a 100 million...it doesnt mean it sold majorly to the same market, because the sales say otherwise. The majority of the casuals Nintendo wooed were not interested in long term gaming and even less than the traditional casual. 

Except the Wii didn't only appeal to first time gamers; it was also a very attractive proposition to the traditional casual, the guy who played Guitar Hero on the PS2 with his mates. It was trendy, affordable, popular, the natural choice for the mainstream buyer.

Im not denying that at all, but you did not need a Wii to play Guitar hero and some many PS2, PS3 and 360 gamers were able to secure their own versions as well, despite the Wii. Regardless, the Wii was a force for motion games for sure. As I said before, I wish Sony was as passionate as Nintendo and Microsoft with their casual endeavors, because they are quite underrated and have done so much already that they have not been given credit for (of course...thats partially their fault). Hell...I didnt know a Eyetoy existed until my friend introducted me to it and a Kinectic motion game.



curl-6 on 29 June 2017
S.T.A.G.E. said:
curl-6 said:

Except the Wii didn't only appeal to first time gamers; it was also a very attractive proposition to the traditional casual, the guy who played Guitar Hero on the PS2 with his mates. It was trendy, affordable, popular, the natural choice for the mainstream buyer.

Im not denying that at all, but you did not need a Wii to play Guitar hero and some many PS2, PS3 and 360 gamers were able to secure their own versions as well, despite the Wii. Regardless, the Wii was a force for motion games for sure. As I said before, I wish Sony was as passionate as Nintendo and Microsoft with their casual endeavors, because they are quite underrated and have done so much already that they have not been given credit for (of course...thats partially their fault). Hell...I didnt know a Eyetoy existed until my friend introducted me to it and a Kinectic motion game.

Oh yeah, Wii by no means had a monopoly on the casual consumer. I just meant that for a certain kind of buyer, the gamer who just buys what is trendy/popular and doesn't take gaming seriously like we do, PS2 was the natural choice in the 6th gen, and Wii was the natural choice last gen.



GOWTLOZ on 29 June 2017
mZuzek said:
GOTY awards don't determine the success or failure of a console.

They also don't determine what was the best game of the year.

I agree. Only one of the games he listed was actually the best game of the year. And even that is a tie.