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Kobe or Lebron?

Kobe 118 67.05%
 
Lebron 58 32.95%
 
Total:176

Love Durant, but I'd personally take Westbrook. Just because Westbrook is the more complete player in my view, even though he's not at the same level as Durant when it comes to scoring. But the main reason why is the same reason I'd personally take Kobe over LeBron, Westbrook is just a cold-blooded killer who is coming for you from tip to buzzer. He plays the game with more fire, intensity, and competitiveness than anyone else in the game today in my view. When he's on, LOOK OUT!



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So is Michael not a winner because he had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Horace Grant, and those guys for his six rings?
Is Magic not a winner because he had Kareem, James Worthy, Pat Riley, and those boys for his 5 rings?
Is Larry not a winner because he had Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, DJ, and those guys?
What about Isiah without the Bad Boys?
LeBron without D-Wade, Bosh, and Ray Allen?
Jerry West without Wilt and Baylor?
Bill Russell without Havilichek, Cousy, and Red Aurebach?
Shaq without Kobe, D-Fish, Horry, and Phil Jackson?
Every great player needs to have a supporting cast with great coachig in order to do it.
You think Stephen Curry would be in the position he's in to repeat as Champion and MVP without Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Steve Kerr, and those guys?
No disrespect, but you're coming across more as a Kobe Hater than someone with a logical viewpoint on his career and basketball.



Soundwave said:
Cirio said:
Also, to the people praising Jordan and calling Kobe a simple ball hog and scorer, both Jordan and Kobe averaged about 5 assists per game in their career (Jordan 5.3, Kobe 4.7). Jordan is clearly the better player but to say Kobe was just a ball hog is stupid

I'd say Kobe even later in his years was prone to "ball hogging" more than Jordan. He just wasn't as smart of a player, Jordan had scoring 32 a game down to basically a science so he was fine passing the ball around, Kobe would go outside the offence and ignore the coach moreso. 

Not to say Kobe isn't a great player, he definitely was, but Jordan kinda grew out of that "I gotta score 40 every night" mentality to adopt a smarter style of player towards the end of his career. Kobe was more prone to be goaded into taking bad shots. 

Kobe's average assists per game over his last 5 years (not including this year since it's still in progress): 5.44 assists per game

Jordan's average assists per game over his last 5 years as a Chicago Bull: 4.58 assists per game 

Jordan's average assists per game over his last 5 years (incl. Washington): 4.22 assists per game

All this "Kobe is a ball hog" nonense is a load of crap backed by bandwagon hate about Kobe's game. Kobe has ALWAYS been a good all around player and is comparable to Jordan in every category minus total points per game. All the people who say Kobe was a ball hog either never watched him play or blindly follow the bandwagon hate of his playstyle. 



Cirio said:

All this "Kobe is a ball hog" nonense is a load of crap backed by bandwagon hate about Kobe's game. Kobe has ALWAYS been a good all around player and is comparable to Jordan in every category minus total points per game. All the people who say Kobe was a ball hog either never watched him play or blindly follow the bandwagon hate of his playstyle. 

Someone has not seen Lakers games in last 3 years. I wish I had videoed a game I tried to watch this season. After the start wistle he was literally playing alone on offense and shooting contested 3s, scoring 1 of 5, while his teammates were standing still on the court and watching. I could not bear it and changed the channel.



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Deus Ex (2000) - a game that pushes the boundaries of what the video game medium is capable of to a degree unmatched to this very day.

 

Cirio said:
Soundwave said:

I'd say Kobe even later in his years was prone to "ball hogging" more than Jordan. He just wasn't as smart of a player, Jordan had scoring 32 a game down to basically a science so he was fine passing the ball around, Kobe would go outside the offence and ignore the coach moreso. 

Not to say Kobe isn't a great player, he definitely was, but Jordan kinda grew out of that "I gotta score 40 every night" mentality to adopt a smarter style of player towards the end of his career. Kobe was more prone to be goaded into taking bad shots. 

Kobe's average assists per game over his last 5 years (not including this year since it's still in progress): 5.44 assists per game

Jordan's average assists per game over his last 5 years as a Chicago Bull: 4.58 assists per game 

Jordan's average assists per game over his last 5 years (incl. Washington): 4.22 assists per game

All this "Kobe is a ball hog" nonense is a load of crap backed by bandwagon hate about Kobe's game. Kobe has ALWAYS been a good all around player and is comparable to Jordan in every category minus total points per game. All the people who say Kobe was a ball hog either never watched him play or blindly follow the bandwagon hate of his playstyle. 

lol, I've watched Kobe from his *rookie* season (that's right way back in the 96-97 season). 

He's a terrific player, but he definitely could lose focus of the game and get fixated on taking bad shots even towards the end of his career. He and Phil Jackson continually butted heads about that. 

He's a good player, I would say LeBron is a bit better, he doesn't have the same competetive fire and can be a bit of a wuss at times, but he does have good efficiency:



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Cirio said:
Chris Hu said:

Come on now Kobe really isn't a winner the titles he won are mostly due to his supporting cast and great coaching he couldn't even get Malone and Payton a ring and San Antionio defeated the almost identical Pistons team a year later.

Yeah Michael Jordan isn't a winner either because the titles he won are mostly due to his supporting cast and great coaching. 

Same could be said about LeBron.

And Magic.

And everyone else.

Even if think that Kobe is a winner the first three rings are Shaq's.  Jordan was the key player in all the Bulls titles.



PAOerfulone said:

So is Michael not a winner because he had Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Horace Grant, and those guys for his six rings?
Is Magic not a winner because he had Kareem, James Worthy, Pat Riley, and those boys for his 5 rings?
Is Larry not a winner because he had Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, DJ, and those guys?
What about Isiah without the Bad Boys?
LeBron without D-Wade, Bosh, and Ray Allen?
Jerry West without Wilt and Baylor?
Bill Russell without Havilichek, Cousy, and Red Aurebach?
Shaq without Kobe, D-Fish, Horry, and Phil Jackson?
Every great player needs to have a supporting cast with great coachig in order to do it.
You think Stephen Curry would be in the position he's in to repeat as Champion and MVP without Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Steve Kerr, and those guys?
No disrespect, but you're coming across more as a Kobe Hater than someone with a logical viewpoint on his career and basketball.

Jerry West actually didn't have Elgin Baylor's help when he he won the title in 1972.  Baylor only played in 9 games during that season and none in the post season and the season before that he only played in two games.  Also Shaq won a ring without Kobe and all the other people you mentioned with the Heat in 2006.



Kobe was just as important to those 3 titles as Shaq was.
Is it a coincidence that Shaq didn't win anything until Phil came to town and Kobe had evolved his game to a Superstar Level.
Without Kobe, Shaq would have been lucky to win just 1 ring with those Laker teams, and they sure as hell wouldn't have won 3.

https://youtu.be/qawbo3NOmR4
He killed the Spurs here and set the tempo for that Series.

https://youtu.be/m7QZaZJu2yM
Demolished the Kings and sent them home.

https://youtu.be/7I5e1fh2TXs
I counted 10 points in that 4th quarter comeback against the Trailblazers, plus that alley-oop to Shaq that was heard 'round the world.

"Those first three rings are Shaq's." Wrong. Those first three rings are Lakers' with him and Kobe.
Kobe needed Shaq for those first three.
But you better damn well believe that Shaq needed Kobe just as much, if not more, than Kobe needed him.
Shaq without Kobe:
2 Finals Appearances. 1 Ring. No Finals MVPs. No League MVPs.
Kobe without Shaq:
3 Finals Appearances. 2 Rings. 2 Finals MVPs. 1 League MVP.
Just a thought.



Ah yes, that Heat team in 2006. True Shaq didn't have those guys, but who DID he have? Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, James Posey, Udonis Haslem, this old guy named Pat Riley as a head coach, oh yeah and this young guard at the time from Marquette named Dwayne Wade.
They should change it from:
Miami Heat beat the Dallas Mavericks to "Dwayne Wade beat the Dallas Mavericks."
Because Dwayne Wade LITERALLY put that team on his back and led them to 4 straight wins against Dallas in that series. The Mavericks had no answer whatsoever for Wade, he picked them apart piece by piece by piece.
We'd probably be here saying Shaq never won a ring without Kobe if it wasn't for Wade.
Like I said before. "EVERY great player needs a supporting cast with great coaching in order to do it.
Just like how Kobe won 2 rings without Shaq, but with guys like Derek Fisher, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, and Phil Jackson in 2009 and 2010.
During that time, he was the undisputed best player on the planet.
https://youtu.be/7wVwztfmNVI
The Lakers, by all means, should've lost that WCF against Denver, but Kobe wasn't having it.



PAOerfulone said:

Kobe was just as important to those 3 titles as Shaq was.
Is it a coincidence that Shaq didn't win anything until Phil came to town and Kobe had evolved his game to a Superstar Level.
Without Kobe, Shaq would have been lucky to win just 1 ring with those Laker teams, and they sure as hell wouldn't have won 3.

https://youtu.be/qawbo3NOmR4
He killed the Spurs here and set the tempo for that Series.

https://youtu.be/m7QZaZJu2yM
Demolished the Kings and sent them home.

https://youtu.be/7I5e1fh2TXs
I counted 10 points in that 4th quarter comeback against the Trailblazers, plus that alley-oop to Shaq that was heard 'round the world.

"Those first three rings are Shaq's." Wrong. Those first three rings are Lakers' with him and Kobe.
Kobe needed Shaq for those first three.
But you better damn well believe that Shaq needed Kobe just as much, if not more, than Kobe needed him.
Shaq without Kobe:
2 Finals Appearances. 1 Ring. No Finals MVPs. No League MVPs.
Kobe without Shaq:
3 Finals Appearances. 2 Rings. 2 Finals MVPs. 1 League MVP.
Just a thought.

Meh, I'm not saying that Kobe is a bad player I'm just saying that he is highly overrated and a ball hog and when it comes to being a all around player and team player he is not even in the same league as Jordan and LeBron.  There are a ton of players that hated playing with Kobe as far as I know there aren't any players that hated to play with Jordan and LeBron.