Blag79 said: well metal is defiantly music as it's made using a instrument but the electronic stuff might not be considered music because it's not even made the same way and it's one person with a pc not like a pc is a music instrument
While I agree with your sentiment, just because something is done badly, or in a lazy manner, does not make it any less so. They are all music, the rest is up to personal taste.
If you take the screaming out of context, it is not music. However, when you have intruments, forming a melody, a song has been composed and someone is using screamed vocales to convey an emotion, it most certainly is music.
Just like spoken word is music (note spoken word is not rap, rap is music too by the way). If people were to read a script and call it a day, that would not be music. But to read words in such a way, that it reflects the melody of a song, it is certainly music.
You clearly have no knowledge of time signatures, rhythms, or music theory for that matter. You can not decide what is and is not music beause you have a clear bias against it.
I am not a fan of country music, but I cannot claim that it is not real music, because of the lyrical content, vocal style, and I cannot claim that a banjo is not a real instrument or anything of the sort. That would be completely and utterly wrong.
I did not want to have to do this, but I actually have knowledge in music, having studied it and being in a band myself, witnessing many forms of music before my very eyes (and through my ears). Some things I did not like, some things were surprising to me. But I was never ignorant enough to claim that it is not music.
Put in short, you can educate someone who wants to be educated. You can reason with someone who is willing to be reasoned with. And then there are people like you, who will not listen, despite their lack of knowledge.
Like I said, if a song has been composed, has an arrangement of different sounds and rhythms, conveys emotions, can be performed etc. It is by definition music. People can either dance, sing a long, or 'mosh' to said music. Different genres of music tend to convey different sounds and emotions. Your lack of musical knowledge is similar to those that would claim that rock is "the devil's music". When such statements are made, it is hard to take the person seriously.
You don't have to like it, however, it is still music regardless.
For context, I would not argue with a doctor what is and is not an organ. That would be completely foolish. The doctor has studied human biology, while I have (to a lesser degree), the doctor's knowledge in such regards to the human anatomy surpasses my own.
You are just claiming it is not music because you do not think screaming is music. Which means you have ignored the point. In what circumstance, has any of these genres, only contained screaming and nothing else? Let that sink in for a moment.
You're the ignorant one, because I play music.
I have been playing Irish music for over 10 years and took 3 years of formal lessons in piano as a child, now I play violin in an orchestra and I love music.
So the day you'll realize that your studies in music does not give you the right to judge people on what they personally define as music is the day your brain will expand.
You are rude, and know that the rudeness game can be played by everyone.
Learn to argue.
And I won't honor you with a counter-argument though I have one ready, because you upset me.
I doubt it would have been a productive counter argument anyway, considering your last response was just a man screaming out of context.
Also I study AND perform music.
You have a clear bias, and you do not have a solid argument. THAT is why you choose to let this argument go. You are upset because you have no argument to lead with. Besides, there is nothing to argue. Music is music. A movie, is a movie. A TV show, is a TV Show. I do not understand how this is a difficult concept for you, but it is what it is. Music evolves into many different forms. What music is now, is different to what they would have listened to in the Renaissance.
Music "That one of the fine arts which is concerned with the combination of sounds with a view to beauty of form and the expression of thought or feeling" - Oxford University Dictionary
Okay, so does Metal, Techno, and Screamo music contain a combination of sounds and forms expression/thought/feeling? Check.
A quick summary: Heavy metal and its subgenres are another genre of rock music It was developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It contains many roots with blues rock and psychedellic rock and is known for loud sound. - Weinstein 2000.
I rather go by the information that I have supplied, at least I have provided sources.
And going by your definition "the art or science of composing or performing music."
Artists that play these different genres of music 'perform' and they 'compose' their songs in order to craft music.
You sir, are grasping at straws and have invalidated yourself with the definitions that you have provided in order to disprove me... because I was rude? Eh.
It does not matter what your opinion is. Music is music. Fact. I am not trying to assert any authority over what is and is not music. That is what you and Spurgeon are doing.
Just because you have some sort of bias or you dislike something, does not make that thing 'not music'.
You also say I am presuming? Presuming what? That music is music? That makes zero sense and does not even deserve a proper response.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If I scream, I may be expressing a feeling but it may not be music...
To drive my point home, is this music to you?
kthx
As a fan of metal, I think screams and growls have more in common with percussive instruments than traditional singing. If the growls follow a rhythm, goes with what the other instruments are playing, and are pleasing to the ear of the listener, it's absolutely music.
I doubt it would have been a productive counter argument anyway, considering your last response was just a man screaming out of context.
Also I study AND perform music.
You have a clear bias, and you do not have a solid argument. THAT is why you choose to let this argument go. You are upset because you have no argument to lead with. Besides, there is nothing to argue. Music is music. A movie, is a movie. A TV show, is a TV Show. I do not understand how this is a difficult concept for you, but it is what it is.
@bold. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! So do I...
I gave you proper examples outside of music to show how art can be taken way out of proportion, using something that is not art and calling it art. I showed you a video of what was and what was not visual art. You simply ignored it.
Of course the argument applies close enough but is not sufficient to form the complete argument when it comes to music, since visual art and music are both art, but not the same.
There are many songs of a man talking with a rif in the back. Some call it rap. In some cases it is done in a way that is thought through and offers something that makes one ponder or brings a sense of appreciation of what is being listened to. But in other cases it is closer to noise than to music.
Is this music to you?
Also, slow airs typically don't have a strict time signature. They are certainly music. Music is not exclusively defined by the existence of a time signature.
That video you have linked is music. It is definitely not very good by any means, but that does not detract from the fact that it is music.
To use your example of art: If someone was to apply faeces onto a canvas or simply draw circles, this is still art. It does not have to be good to be considered art. You are letting your personal tastes define what is and is not music/art. Using your personal bias does not offer a constructive debate.
Music typically has a song structure. Whether that be: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Chorus. It does not have to follow this structure, but that is a very basic example of song structure.
I did not ignore your previous video, as I responded multiple times that it was out of context to the discussion at hand.
Heavy Metal, Techno, Screamo, and Trance are musical genres. Whatever you say does not change this fact. You do not have to like them, but to deny that it is music is based on no evidence whatsoever.
Your argument reminds me of the old "The Earth is flat". Anyone with basic knowledge in this day and age knows that the earth is spherical. This is not up to debate, this is proven fact.
Instrumentation, composition, song structures, melodies, vocals, emotion. These are important aspects of music, and different genres of music approach these aspects differently. You appear to be conservative in your thoughts, claiming rap is not music, and that screamed VOCALS is not muysic. You do not realise how many conservative minds have this thought process. Hell when Rock & Roll first came onto the scene it had a lot of criticism and was described as noise by much of the older generation. Now Rock music is a common music staple within modern times. Heavy Metal is a subgenre of Rock. Punk Rock is a subgenre of Rock. Hardcore is a subgenre of Punk Rock. Emocore is a subgenre of Punk Rock. Screamo is a subgenre of Emocore. This is all an evolution of music. Like I said earlier: People during the Renaissance would have listened to much different music to what we listen to now. People during the B.C.E would have listened to different music as well. Music is constantly evolving.
Next time you approach such topics, try to be more openminded, rather than determining yourself as the prime authority of what is music and what is art. It makes you look pretentious. To further iterate on said genres of music, being music: If you go to a music store, to purchase music, that has been compiled onto a CD, you will come across different genres. Amongst said genres are Heavy Metal, Punk Rock, Alternative, Screamo, Hardcore, Rock, Progressive, Synth, Pop, Country, Jazz, Techno, Electronica etc. They are all music. Hence why you would purchase them from a music/record store. Different genres resonate more with different people. As individuals, we all have different tastes. Telling someone that the music that they like is not music because you do not like it, is not only insensitive to their tastes, it is completely and utterly ignorant.
Their is also awesomely unique versions of Heavy Metal, like Pirate Metal, which incorporates Heavy Metal music with that of Pirate style music - themes and all.
Type in musical genres and look at the different types of music that will appear. I dare you.
Okay everyone, I am going to the music store now, so I can not buy music. Lol.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If I scream, I may be expressing a feeling but it may not be music...
To drive my point home, is this music to you?
kthx
As a fan of metal, I think screams and growls have more in common with percussive instruments than traditional singing. If the growls follow a rhythm, goes with what the other instruments are playing, and are pleasing to the ear of the listener, it's absolutely music.
I agree kind sir. However, I am afraid your words will fall on deaf ears. Tread with caution.
Music is organized sound. That's it. I can't believe people are actually trying to debate that stuff like rap and screamo aren't music. It's not up to your "artistic interpretation." It's a definition.
Blag79 said: well metal is defiantly music as it's made using a instrument but the electronic stuff might not be considered music because it's not even made the same way and it's one person with a pc not like a pc is a music instrument
Sometimes it's one person and a PC, sometimes it's this:
Music is organized sound. That's it. I can't believe people are actually trying to debate that stuff like rap and screamo aren't music. It's not up to your "artistic interpretation." It's a definition.
