Forums - Music Discussion - Do you consider METAL, techno, screamo, etc music or just entertainment?

Music or just entertainment

M 71 81.61%
 
E 2 2.30%
 
neither 3 3.45%
 
other, explain 2 2.30%
 
see results 5 5.75%
 
Jackie CHan MEme ( WHat, I do not even) 4 4.60%
 
Total:87
Toxy said:


That video you have linked is music. It is definitely not very good by any means, but that does not detract from the fact that it is music. 

To use your example of art: If someone was to apply faeces onto a canvas or simply draw circles, this is still art. It does not have to be good to be considered art. You are letting your personal tastes define what is and is not music/art. Using your personal bias does not offer a constructive debate.

Music typically has a song structure. Whether that be: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Chorus. It does not have to follow this structure, but that is a very basic example of song structure. 

 

I did not ignore your previous video, as I responded multiple times that it was out of context to the discussion at hand.

 

Heavy Metal, Techno, Screamo, and Trance are musical genres. Whatever you say does not change this fact. You do not have to like them, but to deny that it is music is based on no evidence whatsoever. 

Your argument reminds me of the old "The Earth is flat". Anyone with basic knowledge in this day and age knows that the earth is spherical. This is not up to debate, this is proven fact. 

Instrumentation, composition, song structures, melodies, vocals, emotion. These are important aspects of music, and different genres of music approach these aspects differently. You appear to be conservative in your thoughts, claiming rap is not music, and that screamed VOCALS is not muysic. You do not realise how many conservative minds have this thought process. Hell when Rock & Roll first came onto the scene it had a lot of criticism and was described as noise by much of the older generation. Now Rock music is a common music staple within modern times. Heavy Metal is a subgenre of Rock. Punk Rock is a subgenre of Rock. Hardcore is a subgenre of Punk Rock. Emocore is a subgenre of Punk Rock. Screamo is a subgenre of Emocore. This is all an evolution of music. Like I said earlier: People during the Renaissance would have listened to much different music to what we listen to now. People during the B.C.E would have listened to different music as well. Music is constantly evolving.

 

Next time you approach such topics, try to be more openminded, rather than determining yourself as the prime authority of what is music and what is art. It makes you look pretentious. To further iterate on said genres of music, being music: If you go to a music store, to purchase music, that has been compiled onto a CD, you will come across different genres. Amongst said genres are Heavy Metal, Punk Rock, Alternative, Screamo, Hardcore, Rock, Progressive, Synth, Pop, Country, Jazz, Techno, Electronica etc. They are all music. Hence why you would purchase them from a music/record store. Different genres resonate more with different people. As individuals, we all have different tastes. Telling someone that the music that they like is not music because you do not like it, is not only insensitive to their tastes, it is completely and utterly ignorant.

 

Their is also awesomely unique versions of Heavy Metal, like Pirate Metal, which incorporates Heavy Metal music with that of Pirate style music - themes and all.

 

Type in musical genres and look at the different types of music that will appear. I dare you.

 

Okay everyone, I am going to the music store now, so I can not buy music. Lol.

As I said, I never said that screamo music wasn't music. I said it depended on what was being produced.

There is a limit to what one can call music, is all I am saying. I can sing something with a time signature and a rock song structure,  but so bad that you wouldn't possibly call it music. You could call it comedy or garbage.

And since I would be the one singing and it looks like anything I say or do you will despise, I think I might be able to convince you.

 

And I'm pissed that you can get away with calling my views ignorant, flat earther, conservative, labeling it as religious talk, telling people their posts will fall on deaf ears, and say all kinds of negative things about me without being chastized for it. In real life I would be pretty pissed off with you.

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.



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It it a subjective matter. Imo the difference between art (not music) and entertainment is the intent of the author.
If the author plays (any genre) for himself (to express an emotion or a point of view on any kind of matter) he is an artist.
If the author plays (any genre) for the audience (in order to please its audience expectations or to attract a specific kind of audience) he is an entertainer.
That said, there are good and mediocre artists and there are good and mediocre entertainers.

In other words, art is purpose while the genre is form.



padib said:

As I said, I never said that screamo music wasn't music. I said it depended on what was being produced.

There is a limit to what one can call music, is all I am saying. I can sing something with a time signature and a rock song structure,  but so bad that you wouldn't possibly call it music. You could call it comedy or garbage.

And since I would be the one singing and it looks like anything I say or do you will despise, I think I might be able to convince you.

 

And I'm pissed that you can get away with calling my views ignorant, flat earther, conservative, labeling it as religious talk, telling people their posts will fall on deaf ears, and say all kinds of negative things about me without being chastized for it. In real life I would be pretty pissed off with you.

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.


I'm not the one who is using their opinion to determine what is and is not music. There is a difference between opinion and fact. That was the whole purpose of me using the earth is flat etc. They were an analogy. I used these analogies as a means to say that your opinion does not change something by its definition. So if the earth is spherical, you cannot say that in your opinion it is not. Just like you cannot say that in your opinion, this is not music, because by definition it is music, just as the earth is spherical. I was not saying you literally believe these things, I was merely saying that your thought process was akin to these things. You were denying fact. This is what I was trying to convey. 
I apologise if I did not convey this clearly. However, my point still stands.



Toxy said:

I'm not the one who is using their opinion to determine what is and is not music. There is a difference between opinion and fact. That was the whole purpose of me using the earth is flat etc. They were an analogy. I used these analogies as a means to say that your opinion does not change something by its definition. So if the earth is spherical, you cannot say that in your opinion it is not. Just like you cannot say that in your opinion, this is not music, because by definition it is music, just as the earth is spherical. I was not saying you literally believe these things, I was merely saying that your thought process was akin to these things. You were denying fact. That was all I was trying to convey. 
I apologise if I did not convey this clearly. However, my point still stands.

It's not a nice thing to say and it doesn't further your point. It's an easy exit to an argument about what something is, fundamentally.

The definition of music is offered to us by what people over time have considered music. As you said music has changed radically over the years so that definition was refined until everything everyone today considers music can fit.

But I gave you a very good argument. If I sent you a recording of me singing like a goof, with a proper time signature and a common rock structure, you might have a hard time calling it music. You might laugh and call it comedy, or you might cringe and say it's so bad it's hard to call music.

I'm pushing it to the extreme to simply make a point.

Again, I don't think all screamo is not music and I never said that.

I appreciate your apology and I apologize if my point of view upset you. But let's talk about it without taking jabs at each other, it's all I'm asking. I also wanted to say that the feces argument was vulgar I admit, but I used it just to make a point.



padib said:
Toxy said:

I'm not the one who is using their opinion to determine what is and is not music. There is a difference between opinion and fact. That was the whole purpose of me using the earth is flat etc. They were an analogy. I used these analogies as a means to say that your opinion does not change something by its definition. So if the earth is spherical, you cannot say that in your opinion it is not. Just like you cannot say that in your opinion, this is not music, because by definition it is music, just as the earth is spherical. I was not saying you literally believe these things, I was merely saying that your thought process was akin to these things. You were denying fact. That was all I was trying to convey. 
I apologise if I did not convey this clearly. However, my point still stands.

It's not a nice thing to say and it doesn't further your point. It's an easy exit to an argument about what something is, fundamentally.

The definition of music is offered to us by what people over time have considered music. As you said music has changed radically over the years so that definition was refined until everything everyone today considers music can fit.

But I gave you a very good argument. If I sent you a recording of me singing like a goof, with a proper time signature and a common rock structure, you might have a hard time calling it music. You might laugh and call it comedy, or you might cringe and say it's so bad it's hard to call music.

I'm pushing it to the extreme to simply make a point.

Again, I don't think all screamo is not music and I never said that.

I appreciate your apology and I apologize if my point of view upset you. But let's talk about it without taking jabs at each other, it's all I'm asking. I also wanted to say that the feces argument was vulgar I admit, but I used it just to make a point.

@bolded. It is interesting that you say that, as there are actually comedy genres within music. It does not stop it from being music.

My original post was a statement that the OP should not have asked what people 'consider' music, because it is not defined by opinion.

 

If the OP asked this: 

My girlfriend's kids like horror, slasher, and drama styles. I like them myself. Although I just think that they are entertainment and not movies. What do you consider them?

 

This would be considered bad form, as it is evident that films like Scream, Nightmare on Elm Street and the Notebook are movies.

 

This thread should not have been based on opinion whatsoever. It should have been a simple "I am unsure of whether this is music/film, as I am not familiar with this style. Can someone clarify whether it is music/film?"

 

Someone from the thread leaps into the fray and supplies an answer "Yes it is defined as music/film". 

/end thread.



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Toxy said:

@bolded. It is interesting that you say that, as there are actually comedy genres within music. It does not stop it from being music.

My original post was a statement that the OP should not have asked what people 'consider' music, because it is not defined by opinion. If the OP asked this: 

My girlfriend's kids like horror, slasher, and drama styles. I like them myself. Although I just think that they are entertainment and not movies. What do you consider them?

 

 

This thread should not have been based on opinion whatsoever. It should have been a simple "I am unsure of whether this is music/film, as I am not familiar with this style. Can someone clarify whether it is music/film?"

 

Someone from the thread leaps into the fray and supplies an answer "Yes it is defined as music/film". 

/end thread.

Toxy, it's a valid question. The OP does not understand what is or isn't music. The simple answer is what we did, offer a definition and go from there. Inform, offer reasons why we think something is or is not music and learn together.

OP did nothing wrong, what is important as usual is to stay calm even if some opinions upset us. As long as nobody called anyone any names and was being polite, there is no reason to see the thread as something negative.

The opinion ultimately is: "What defines music and what fits into that definition" and again it is a vaild topic.

With so few music threads on here, let's try not to just kill this one too.



padib said:

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.

Yes and a PM to boot, im aware of it but my view on it is this, you have different opinions, leave it at that, after all the arguing back and forth i should be handing out moderations to you both.

Just let it go, both of you.

padib said:

The opinion ultimately is: "What defines music and what fits into that definition" and again it is a vaild topic.

And it's a question not an opinion.

The op asked if you, the reader, consider Metal, Techno or Screamo to be music or just entertainment, he wants personal opinions not battles to the death over what an outdated definitions brief classification of music is.

And the answer is, yes it's music, as I posted, personal preference does not matter, music is music.



Tachikoma said:
padib said:

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.

Yes and a PM to boot, im aware of it but my view on it is this, you have different opinions, leave it at that, after all the arguing back and forth i should be handing out moderations to you both.

Just let it go, both of you.

padib said:

The opinion ultimately is: "What defines music and what fits into that definition" and again it is a vaild topic.

And it's a question not an opinion.

I meant that opinions would revolve around the question "What defines...". Were you intending on lecturing me?

I think we are able to debate in a civil way. A friendly PM was all we needed to carry on politely.

Tachikoma said: (in Edit)

The op asked if you, the reader, consider Metal, Techno or Screamo to be music or just entertainment, he wants personal opinions not battles to the death over what an outdated definitions brief classification of music is.

And the answer is, yes it's music, as I posted, personal preference does not matter, music is music.

@bold. What is your battle to the death is someone else's topic of discussion. Again, with so few music threads on here, can we please be allowed to talk about what we consider to be musical and what not, without someone offering a judgement on the topic and what is being discussed?

The last sentence is an opinion and I disagree with it, and I've given excellent arguments why I think some things people might call music is not, if you repeat your opinion it doesn't make it more true.



You sound like a really old person..... It's music. It doesn't matter how the sounds are generated. I like some stuff like trance or techno but I don't really know jack shit about that type of music. I like mainly rock music. I have to be in the right mood for the heavy stuff.



padib said:
Tachikoma said:
padib said:

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.

Yes and a PM to boot, im aware of it but my view on it is this, you have different opinions, leave it at that, after all the arguing back and forth i should be handing out moderations to you both.

Just let it go, both of you.

padib said:

The opinion ultimately is: "What defines music and what fits into that definition" and again it is a vaild topic.

And it's a question not an opinion.

I meant that opinions would revolve around the question "What defines...". Were you intending on lecturing me?

I think we are able to debate in a civil way. A friendly PM was all we needed to carry on politely.


I see that you were in a mood to debate.