Forums - Music Discussion - Do you consider METAL, techno, screamo, etc music or just entertainment?

Music or just entertainment

M 71 81.61%
 
E 2 2.30%
 
neither 3 3.45%
 
other, explain 2 2.30%
 
see results 5 5.75%
 
Jackie CHan MEme ( WHat, I do not even) 4 4.60%
 
Total:87
Toxy said:

I doubt it would have been a productive counter argument anyway, considering your last response was just a man screaming out of context.

Also I study AND perform music.

You have a clear bias, and you do not have a solid argument. THAT is why you choose to let this argument go. You are upset because you have no argument to lead with. Besides, there is nothing to argue. Music is music. A movie, is a movie. A TV show, is a TV Show. I do not understand how this is a difficult concept for you, but it is what it is.

@bold. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! So do I...

I gave you proper examples outside of music to show how art can be taken way out of proportion, using something that is not art and calling it art. I showed you a video of what was and what was not visual art. You simply ignored it.

Of course the argument applies close enough but is not sufficient to form the complete argument when it comes to music, since visual art and music are both art, but not the same.

There are many songs of a man talking with a rif in the back. Some call it rap. In some cases it is done in a way that is thought through and offers something that makes one ponder or brings a sense of appreciation of what is being listened to. But in other cases it is closer to noise than to music.

Is this music to you?

 

Also, slow airs typically don't have a strict time signature. They are certainly music. Music is not exclusively defined by the existence of a time signature.



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padib said:
Toxy said:

 

Music "That one of the fine arts which is concerned with the combination of sounds with a view to beauty of form and the expression of thought or feeling" - Oxford University Dictionary

Okay, so does Metal, Techno, and Screamo music contain a combination of sounds and forms expression/thought/feeling? Check. 

 

A quick summary: Heavy metal and its subgenres are another genre of rock music It was developed in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It contains many roots with blues rock and psychedellic rock and is known for loud sound. - Weinstein 2000.

 

I rather go by the information that I have supplied, at least I have provided sources. 

And going by your definition "the art or science of composing or performing music."

Artists that play these different genres of music 'perform' and they 'compose' their songs in order to craft music.

You sir, are grasping at straws and have invalidated yourself with the definitions that you have provided in order to disprove me... because I was rude? Eh.

 

It does not matter what your opinion is. Music is music. Fact. I am not trying to assert any authority over what is and is not music. That is what you and Spurgeon are doing. 

 

Just because you have some sort of bias or you dislike something, does not make that thing 'not music'. 

 

You also say I am presuming? Presuming what? That music is music? That makes zero sense and does not even deserve a proper response.

I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If I scream, I may be expressing a feeling but it may not be music...

To drive my point home, is this music to you?

kthx

As a fan of metal, I think screams and growls have more in common with percussive instruments than traditional singing. If the growls follow a rhythm, goes with what the other instruments are playing, and are pleasing to the ear of the listener, it's absolutely music.



padib said:
Toxy said:

I doubt it would have been a productive counter argument anyway, considering your last response was just a man screaming out of context.

Also I study AND perform music.

You have a clear bias, and you do not have a solid argument. THAT is why you choose to let this argument go. You are upset because you have no argument to lead with. Besides, there is nothing to argue. Music is music. A movie, is a movie. A TV show, is a TV Show. I do not understand how this is a difficult concept for you, but it is what it is.

@bold. GOOD FOR YOU!!!!! So do I...

I gave you proper examples outside of music to show how art can be taken way out of proportion, using something that is not art and calling it art. I showed you a video of what was and what was not visual art. You simply ignored it.

Of course the argument applies close enough but is not sufficient to form the complete argument when it comes to music, since visual art and music are both art, but not the same.

There are many songs of a man talking with a rif in the back. Some call it rap. In some cases it is done in a way that is thought through and offers something that makes one ponder or brings a sense of appreciation of what is being listened to. But in other cases it is closer to noise than to music.

Is this music to you?

 

Also, slow airs typically don't have a strict time signature. They are certainly music. Music is not exclusively defined by the existence of a time signature.


That video you have linked is music. It is definitely not very good by any means, but that does not detract from the fact that it is music. 

To use your example of art: If someone was to apply faeces onto a canvas or simply draw circles, this is still art. It does not have to be good to be considered art. You are letting your personal tastes define what is and is not music/art. Using your personal bias does not offer a constructive debate.

Music typically has a song structure. Whether that be: Intro, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Chorus. It does not have to follow this structure, but that is a very basic example of song structure. 

 

I did not ignore your previous video, as I responded multiple times that it was out of context to the discussion at hand.

 

Heavy Metal, Techno, Screamo, and Trance are musical genres. Whatever you say does not change this fact. You do not have to like them, but to deny that it is music is based on no evidence whatsoever. 

Your argument reminds me of the old "The Earth is flat". Anyone with basic knowledge in this day and age knows that the earth is spherical. This is not up to debate, this is proven fact. 

Instrumentation, composition, song structures, melodies, vocals, emotion. These are important aspects of music, and different genres of music approach these aspects differently. You appear to be conservative in your thoughts, claiming rap is not music, and that screamed VOCALS is not muysic. You do not realise how many conservative minds have this thought process. Hell when Rock & Roll first came onto the scene it had a lot of criticism and was described as noise by much of the older generation. Now Rock music is a common music staple within modern times. Heavy Metal is a subgenre of Rock. Punk Rock is a subgenre of Rock. Hardcore is a subgenre of Punk Rock. Emocore is a subgenre of Punk Rock. Screamo is a subgenre of Emocore. This is all an evolution of music. Like I said earlier: People during the Renaissance would have listened to much different music to what we listen to now. People during the B.C.E would have listened to different music as well. Music is constantly evolving.

 

Next time you approach such topics, try to be more openminded, rather than determining yourself as the prime authority of what is music and what is art. It makes you look pretentious. To further iterate on said genres of music, being music: If you go to a music store, to purchase music, that has been compiled onto a CD, you will come across different genres. Amongst said genres are Heavy Metal, Punk Rock, Alternative, Screamo, Hardcore, Rock, Progressive, Synth, Pop, Country, Jazz, Techno, Electronica etc. They are all music. Hence why you would purchase them from a music/record store. Different genres resonate more with different people. As individuals, we all have different tastes. Telling someone that the music that they like is not music because you do not like it, is not only insensitive to their tastes, it is completely and utterly ignorant.

 

Their is also awesomely unique versions of Heavy Metal, like Pirate Metal, which incorporates Heavy Metal music with that of Pirate style music - themes and all.

 

Type in musical genres and look at the different types of music that will appear. I dare you.

 

Okay everyone, I am going to the music store now, so I can not buy music. Lol.



CladInShadows said:
padib said:

I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If I scream, I may be expressing a feeling but it may not be music...

To drive my point home, is this music to you?

kthx

As a fan of metal, I think screams and growls have more in common with percussive instruments than traditional singing. If the growls follow a rhythm, goes with what the other instruments are playing, and are pleasing to the ear of the listener, it's absolutely music.


I agree kind sir. However, I am afraid your words will fall on deaf ears. Tread with caution.



Music is organized sound. That's it. I can't believe people are actually trying to debate that stuff like rap and screamo aren't music. It's not up to your "artistic interpretation." It's a definition.



Well, this is new.

Read.

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Blag79 said:
well metal is defiantly music as it's made using a instrument but the electronic stuff might not be considered music because it's not even made the same way and it's one person with a pc not like a pc is a music instrument

Sometimes it's one person and a PC, sometimes it's this:

Yes, even today.



spemanig said:

Music is organized sound. That's it. I can't believe people are actually trying to debate that stuff like rap and screamo aren't music. It's not up to your "artistic interpretation." It's a definition.


Thank you kind sir. This ^^



Well, those are genres of music... Therefore they're music. Why wouldn't they be considered as such?

Whether or not you like the music is a different matter. Just because you don't like a genre of music doesn't mean it's not music.



"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

-Samuel Clemens

Music is music, personal preference doesn't change anything.



CladInShadows said:
padib said:

I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If I scream, I may be expressing a feeling but it may not be music...

To drive my point home, is this music to you?

kthx

As a fan of metal, I think screams and growls have more in common with percussive instruments than traditional singing. If the growls follow a rhythm, goes with what the other instruments are playing, and are pleasing to the ear of the listener, it's absolutely music.

I am not saying that all screamo music is bad...

padib said:

At about 0:19 you will see the difference between art and not art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGrrtiGVT8Y

So some Screamo stuff is like before 0:19, some is like after. It all depends on what is being produced.

I could take a dump on a blank canvas and call it art, it all depends on what's being made.

I was using that video to show where one COULD draw the line between noise and music.

But my ears are deaf apparently, so don't bother with me. Listen to Toxy he knows all things.

spemanig said:

Music is organized sound. That's it. I can't believe people are actually trying to debate that stuff like rap and screamo aren't music. It's not up to your "artistic interpretation." It's a definition.

How dare someone offer an opinion on what they consider music in a thread about what they consider music!!!

Sure, what is the definition you use then? I offered one, and I explained why I think some things are noise and some aren't. You just offer a judgement, like a few others here.