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Forums - Music Discussion - Do you consider METAL, techno, screamo, etc music or just entertainment?

 

Music or just entertainment

M 71 81.61%
 
E 2 2.30%
 
neither 3 3.45%
 
other, explain 2 2.30%
 
see results 5 5.75%
 
Jackie CHan MEme ( WHat, I do not even) 4 4.60%
 
Total:87

It it a subjective matter. Imo the difference between art (not music) and entertainment is the intent of the author.
If the author plays (any genre) for himself (to express an emotion or a point of view on any kind of matter) he is an artist.
If the author plays (any genre) for the audience (in order to please its audience expectations or to attract a specific kind of audience) he is an entertainer.
That said, there are good and mediocre artists and there are good and mediocre entertainers.

In other words, art is purpose while the genre is form.



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padib said:

As I said, I never said that screamo music wasn't music. I said it depended on what was being produced.

There is a limit to what one can call music, is all I am saying. I can sing something with a time signature and a rock song structure,  but so bad that you wouldn't possibly call it music. You could call it comedy or garbage.

And since I would be the one singing and it looks like anything I say or do you will despise, I think I might be able to convince you.

 

And I'm pissed that you can get away with calling my views ignorant, flat earther, conservative, labeling it as religious talk, telling people their posts will fall on deaf ears, and say all kinds of negative things about me without being chastized for it. In real life I would be pretty pissed off with you.

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.


I'm not the one who is using their opinion to determine what is and is not music. There is a difference between opinion and fact. That was the whole purpose of me using the earth is flat etc. They were an analogy. I used these analogies as a means to say that your opinion does not change something by its definition. So if the earth is spherical, you cannot say that in your opinion it is not. Just like you cannot say that in your opinion, this is not music, because by definition it is music, just as the earth is spherical. I was not saying you literally believe these things, I was merely saying that your thought process was akin to these things. You were denying fact. This is what I was trying to convey. 
I apologise if I did not convey this clearly. However, my point still stands.



padib said:
Toxy said:

I'm not the one who is using their opinion to determine what is and is not music. There is a difference between opinion and fact. That was the whole purpose of me using the earth is flat etc. They were an analogy. I used these analogies as a means to say that your opinion does not change something by its definition. So if the earth is spherical, you cannot say that in your opinion it is not. Just like you cannot say that in your opinion, this is not music, because by definition it is music, just as the earth is spherical. I was not saying you literally believe these things, I was merely saying that your thought process was akin to these things. You were denying fact. That was all I was trying to convey. 
I apologise if I did not convey this clearly. However, my point still stands.

It's not a nice thing to say and it doesn't further your point. It's an easy exit to an argument about what something is, fundamentally.

The definition of music is offered to us by what people over time have considered music. As you said music has changed radically over the years so that definition was refined until everything everyone today considers music can fit.

But I gave you a very good argument. If I sent you a recording of me singing like a goof, with a proper time signature and a common rock structure, you might have a hard time calling it music. You might laugh and call it comedy, or you might cringe and say it's so bad it's hard to call music.

I'm pushing it to the extreme to simply make a point.

Again, I don't think all screamo is not music and I never said that.

I appreciate your apology and I apologize if my point of view upset you. But let's talk about it without taking jabs at each other, it's all I'm asking. I also wanted to say that the feces argument was vulgar I admit, but I used it just to make a point.

@bolded. It is interesting that you say that, as there are actually comedy genres within music. It does not stop it from being music.

My original post was a statement that the OP should not have asked what people 'consider' music, because it is not defined by opinion.

 

If the OP asked this: 

My girlfriend's kids like horror, slasher, and drama styles. I like them myself. Although I just think that they are entertainment and not movies. What do you consider them?

 

This would be considered bad form, as it is evident that films like Scream, Nightmare on Elm Street and the Notebook are movies.

 

This thread should not have been based on opinion whatsoever. It should have been a simple "I am unsure of whether this is music/film, as I am not familiar with this style. Can someone clarify whether it is music/film?"

 

Someone from the thread leaps into the fray and supplies an answer "Yes it is defined as music/film". 

/end thread.



padib said:

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.

Yes and a PM to boot, im aware of it but my view on it is this, you have different opinions, leave it at that, after all the arguing back and forth i should be handing out moderations to you both.

Just let it go, both of you.

padib said:

The opinion ultimately is: "What defines music and what fits into that definition" and again it is a vaild topic.

And it's a question not an opinion.

The op asked if you, the reader, consider Metal, Techno or Screamo to be music or just entertainment, he wants personal opinions not battles to the death over what an outdated definitions brief classification of music is.

And the answer is, yes it's music, as I posted, personal preference does not matter, music is music.



You sound like a really old person..... It's music. It doesn't matter how the sounds are generated. I like some stuff like trance or techno but I don't really know jack shit about that type of music. I like mainly rock music. I have to be in the right mood for the heavy stuff.



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padib said:
Tachikoma said:
padib said:

@tachi, since you're here I'd like you to be aware of this.

Yes and a PM to boot, im aware of it but my view on it is this, you have different opinions, leave it at that, after all the arguing back and forth i should be handing out moderations to you both.

Just let it go, both of you.

padib said:

The opinion ultimately is: "What defines music and what fits into that definition" and again it is a vaild topic.

And it's a question not an opinion.

I meant that opinions would revolve around the question "What defines...". Were you intending on lecturing me?

I think we are able to debate in a civil way. A friendly PM was all we needed to carry on politely.


I see that you were in a mood to debate.



padib said:

I meant that opinions would revolve around the question "What defines...". Were you intending on lecturing me?

The topic is set to "Do you consider METAL, techno, screamo, etc music or just entertainment?", how people choose to answer is entirely up to them, so long as they keep it civil, and both you and Toxy are failing to do that, if you consider that a lecture then so be it.

I would prefer however, that you dropped the discussion with each other entirely, as you have both already demonstrated that you are unwilling to let differing opinions pass.



Edit - removed my intitial comment to reflect Tachikoma's request.




Tachikoma said:

The topic is set to "Do you consider METAL, techno, screamo, etc music or just entertainment?", how people choose to answer is entirely up to them, so long as they keep it civil, and both you and Toxy are failing to do that, if you consider that a lecture then so be it.

I would prefer however, that you dropped the discussion with each other entirely, as you have both already demonstrated that you are unwilling to let differing opinions pass.

Okay, noted. I shall put this behind me.



padib said:

I am willing to let differing opinions pass, so long as it's done respectfully.

But anyway I will drop it for the sake of all of us now getting along.

The dictionary definition of music stems from a time when the range of music was substantially limited, using such definitions to prove or disprove the categorization of what does and does not classify as music is shortsighted unless you dig in to the wording used.

If we expand upon a key point in the very defition you posted.

"1.vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion."

We see that a large portion of what categorizes vocal, insutrumental of combined sounds as "music" is the listeners interpretation, and listeners the world over have categorically considered metal, techno, sceamo and every other genre, as "music", because those that willingly produce tracks of those genres, and those that buy the completed tracks either digitally or on cd, find an inherant beauty and expression of emotion in the recording.

 Also, the way you are reacting to the notion of being lectured is worrying, as you seem blind to the realization that you have been lecturing others in this very thread.