By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - PS3's Move Closing The Sales Gap with Kinect

Barozi on 27 November 2011
o_O.Q said:
rf40928 said:

Unfortunately Move is NOT closing the gap - not in the way the Original Poster implies... . The 9 million move devices includes all devices.. If u have 3 or four move devices at home then you are one of the many who do.. A kinect owner has 1 kinect... This means if there are 9.5 million kinects out there that it's a true number for the installed userbase... With Move that's not true.. Some people have 3 or 4 move devices, since you need one wand for each friend.. While on kinect you don't need anything else.. If everyone had 2 move devices and 9 million move devices are out there that would mean only 4.5 million users have move on their PS3 versus 9.5 million users on Kinect - thats Half of kinect.. Since some ppl have more then 2 move devices the userbase would be even lower.. With kinect we know a kinect user only needs one device no matter how many ppl use it on one console.. On move if I  play with 2 friends we each need a device to play at the same time.. That's why move looks 'close'..  So yeah it's close on devices sold.. But far off in actual userbase.  With the designed 'need' of additional wands to play with Sony designed a system that didn't benefit developers , but benefit their wallets.  I don't think this design is working out well as Move was out 1st and yet kinects userbase continues to grow.. This sorta proves that even if your product is out first it doesn't mean you'll be in first place.  Xbox was out first, but it's outselling itself every year so far.. So that's a good record

from your post you seem to be confusing unique users with actual units sold and i've made this point before and i'll make it again...

even if the situation existed that a move owner had to buy 4 wands to play the fact remains that this still represents 4 sales it doesn't matter if its one user or not, why would it?

you think sony cares how many people are buying these things once they are sold?

in fact i didn't even realise that you made the point here "So yeah it's close on devices sold.. But far off in actual userbase" exactly and the article is actually about "devices sold" not "userbase"

"With kinect we know a kinect user only needs one device no matter how many ppl use it on one console"

true but regardless kinect cannot go beyond 2 active users so i don't really see this as being such an achievement

Kinect can do 4 players. Just Dance 3 has it.

Problem is that the OP and the article are calling it "closing the gap". But as some pointed out it's comparing apples to oranges or bananas to whatever.
Same logic would apply if we only counted PS3 consoles and comparing it with the amount of 360 controllers that have been sold throughout the years and then claiming that the 360 is widening the gap. (which is true, but completely free of any logic)



Around the Network
ironmanDX on 27 November 2011
Barozi said:
o_O.Q said:
rf40928 said:

Unfortunately Move is NOT closing the gap - not in the way the Original Poster implies... . The 9 million move devices includes all devices.. If u have 3 or four move devices at home then you are one of the many who do.. A kinect owner has 1 kinect... This means if there are 9.5 million kinects out there that it's a true number for the installed userbase... With Move that's not true.. Some people have 3 or 4 move devices, since you need one wand for each friend.. While on kinect you don't need anything else.. If everyone had 2 move devices and 9 million move devices are out there that would mean only 4.5 million users have move on their PS3 versus 9.5 million users on Kinect - thats Half of kinect.. Since some ppl have more then 2 move devices the userbase would be even lower.. With kinect we know a kinect user only needs one device no matter how many ppl use it on one console.. On move if I  play with 2 friends we each need a device to play at the same time.. That's why move looks 'close'..  So yeah it's close on devices sold.. But far off in actual userbase.  With the designed 'need' of additional wands to play with Sony designed a system that didn't benefit developers , but benefit their wallets.  I don't think this design is working out well as Move was out 1st and yet kinects userbase continues to grow.. This sorta proves that even if your product is out first it doesn't mean you'll be in first place.  Xbox was out first, but it's outselling itself every year so far.. So that's a good record

from your post you seem to be confusing unique users with actual units sold and i've made this point before and i'll make it again...

even if the situation existed that a move owner had to buy 4 wands to play the fact remains that this still represents 4 sales it doesn't matter if its one user or not, why would it?

you think sony cares how many people are buying these things once they are sold?

in fact i didn't even realise that you made the point here "So yeah it's close on devices sold.. But far off in actual userbase" exactly and the article is actually about "devices sold" not "userbase"

"With kinect we know a kinect user only needs one device no matter how many ppl use it on one console"

true but regardless kinect cannot go beyond 2 active users so i don't really see this as being such an achievement

Kinect can do 4 players. Just Dance 3 has it.

Problem is that the OP and the article are calling it "closing the gap". But as some pointed out it's comparing apples to oranges or bananas to whatever.
Same logic would apply if we only counted PS3 consoles and comparing it with the amount of 360 controllers that have been sold throughout the years and then claiming that the 360 is widening the gap. (which is true, but completely free of any logic)


Lol, it's funny because it's true...



Mr Puggsly on 27 November 2011
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ah, I missed that. But why is Sony putting out so many casual titles? The Move failed to appeal to casual audiences based on how poorly past Move titles have done. So they put out more cliche casual games that will inevitably be ignored? Brilliant!

How is Kinect any different? It found an audience and does a much better job selling software.

Easy to make, rubbish videogames that can sell 100k units are easy profit. Probably make a profit off of 10000 copies or something for a whole bunch of the games released for it.

Start the Party, for example, has sold over 250000 units. That many units for a game with those production values is VERY easy money.

If games that release for it can sell over 100000 units, then they can be classed as a success. Look at what they did with Singstar...

Some titles probably are making a profit with only 100K sold. But I don't think its a worthwhile profit, otherwise we would see a large influx of support.

I guess Sony is just trying to cover all the bases in cliche software with little hope of the device taking off.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Carl on 27 November 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ah, I missed that. But why is Sony putting out so many casual titles? The Move failed to appeal to casual audiences based on how poorly past Move titles have done. So they put out more cliche casual games that will inevitably be ignored? Brilliant!

How is Kinect any different? It found an audience and does a much better job selling software.

Easy to make, rubbish videogames that can sell 100k units are easy profit. Probably make a profit off of 10000 copies or something for a whole bunch of the games released for it.

Start the Party, for example, has sold over 250000 units. That many units for a game with those production values is VERY easy money.

If games that release for it can sell over 100000 units, then they can be classed as a success. Look at what they did with Singstar...

Some titles probably are making a profit with only 100K sold. But I don't think its a worthwhile profit, otherwise we would see a large influx of support.

I guess Sony is just trying to cover all the bases in cliche software with little hope of the device taking off.



I don't think they ever really expected it to do much better than it has. If you look at the games Sony hype up for it, they aren't the same games that attract the Wii/Kinect crowd. Yeah, they might have put some small weight behind a few games at launch, but this Year? The focus has been on games like Killzone and Resistance. Not putting weight behind titles like Wii Play Motion snd Kinect Sports 2. I think they know it was overshadowed by Kinect for the casual market, so theyre going for the core. It shows too, with the BioShock Move support they got. Sorry for the wall of text, on the phone.



                            

Mr Puggsly on 27 November 2011
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ah, I missed that. But why is Sony putting out so many casual titles? The Move failed to appeal to casual audiences based on how poorly past Move titles have done. So they put out more cliche casual games that will inevitably be ignored? Brilliant!

How is Kinect any different? It found an audience and does a much better job selling software.

Easy to make, rubbish videogames that can sell 100k units are easy profit. Probably make a profit off of 10000 copies or something for a whole bunch of the games released for it.

Start the Party, for example, has sold over 250000 units. That many units for a game with those production values is VERY easy money.

If games that release for it can sell over 100000 units, then they can be classed as a success. Look at what they did with Singstar...

Some titles probably are making a profit with only 100K sold. But I don't think its a worthwhile profit, otherwise we would see a large influx of support.

I guess Sony is just trying to cover all the bases in cliche software with little hope of the device taking off.



I don't think they ever really expected it to do much better than it has. If you look at the games Sony hype up for it, they aren't the same games that attract the Wii/Kinect crowd. Yeah, they might have put some small weight behind a few games at launch, but this Year? The focus has been on games like Killzone and Resistance. Not putting weight behind titles like Wii Play Motion snd Kinect Sports 2. I think they know it was overshadowed by Kinect for the casual market, so theyre going for the core. It shows too, with the BioShock Move support they got. Sorry for the wall of text, on the phone.

Right, they hype the Move with core games that don't require the Move. But I think its pretty clear that core gamers are sticking with their gamepads.

Sony is pushing Move as some core device, but the only games they put out that actually require it are casual games. Its a ridiculous strategy in my opinion.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Around the Network
oniyide on 27 November 2011
Mr Puggsly said:
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ah, I missed that. But why is Sony putting out so many casual titles? The Move failed to appeal to casual audiences based on how poorly past Move titles have done. So they put out more cliche casual games that will inevitably be ignored? Brilliant!

How is Kinect any different? It found an audience and does a much better job selling software.

Easy to make, rubbish videogames that can sell 100k units are easy profit. Probably make a profit off of 10000 copies or something for a whole bunch of the games released for it.

Start the Party, for example, has sold over 250000 units. That many units for a game with those production values is VERY easy money.

If games that release for it can sell over 100000 units, then they can be classed as a success. Look at what they did with Singstar...

Some titles probably are making a profit with only 100K sold. But I don't think its a worthwhile profit, otherwise we would see a large influx of support.

I guess Sony is just trying to cover all the bases in cliche software with little hope of the device taking off.



I don't think they ever really expected it to do much better than it has. If you look at the games Sony hype up for it, they aren't the same games that attract the Wii/Kinect crowd. Yeah, they might have put some small weight behind a few games at launch, but this Year? The focus has been on games like Killzone and Resistance. Not putting weight behind titles like Wii Play Motion snd Kinect Sports 2. I think they know it was overshadowed by Kinect for the casual market, so theyre going for the core. It shows too, with the BioShock Move support they got. Sorry for the wall of text, on the phone.

Right, they hype the Move with core games that don't require the Move. But I think its pretty clear that core gamers are sticking with their gamepads.

Sony is pushing Move as some core device, but the only games they put out that actually require it are casual games. Its a ridiculous strategy in my opinion.

so whats a better strategy?? Make a bunch of Just Dance adn WiiSPorts rip offs that no one will care about?? Or make those core games Move only?? Those are way worst than what they are doing right now, and considering they make profit off of every Move sold, I think they will be fine.



thx1139 on 27 November 2011

Pushing the Move to core gamers does nothing to expand the PS3 customer base.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

Jazz2K on 27 November 2011

Maybe it's to adapt core gamers to this control system because the next Playstation will come with Move by default and no regular controller will come packed in.



Alby_da_Wolf on 27 November 2011

Just like Microsoft tries (and in America and UK succeeds) to hype Kinect, Sony too tries to hype Move, it's perfectly normal. If pure sales numbers make it look stronger than user base numbers, hyping sales numbers is the correct thing to do for Sony.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Mr Puggsly on 27 November 2011
oniyide said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Carl2291 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ah, I missed that. But why is Sony putting out so many casual titles? The Move failed to appeal to casual audiences based on how poorly past Move titles have done. So they put out more cliche casual games that will inevitably be ignored? Brilliant!

How is Kinect any different? It found an audience and does a much better job selling software.

Easy to make, rubbish videogames that can sell 100k units are easy profit. Probably make a profit off of 10000 copies or something for a whole bunch of the games released for it.

Start the Party, for example, has sold over 250000 units. That many units for a game with those production values is VERY easy money.

If games that release for it can sell over 100000 units, then they can be classed as a success. Look at what they did with Singstar...

Some titles probably are making a profit with only 100K sold. But I don't think its a worthwhile profit, otherwise we would see a large influx of support.

I guess Sony is just trying to cover all the bases in cliche software with little hope of the device taking off.



I don't think they ever really expected it to do much better than it has. If you look at the games Sony hype up for it, they aren't the same games that attract the Wii/Kinect crowd. Yeah, they might have put some small weight behind a few games at launch, but this Year? The focus has been on games like Killzone and Resistance. Not putting weight behind titles like Wii Play Motion snd Kinect Sports 2. I think they know it was overshadowed by Kinect for the casual market, so theyre going for the core. It shows too, with the BioShock Move support they got. Sorry for the wall of text, on the phone.

Right, they hype the Move with core games that don't require the Move. But I think its pretty clear that core gamers are sticking with their gamepads.

Sony is pushing Move as some core device, but the only games they put out that actually require it are casual games. Its a ridiculous strategy in my opinion.

so whats a better strategy?? Make a bunch of Just Dance adn WiiSPorts rip offs that no one will care about?? Or make those core games Move only?? Those are way worst than what they are doing right now, and considering they make profit off of every Move sold, I think they will be fine.

I suggest they keep making those Just Dance and Wii Sports clones because people do care about good ones. Some of the better selling Move titles are dance games and Sports Champions.

Well making their big budget core games Move would boost sales of the hardware, but its a financial risk. I would suggest taking some of their IPs and making spin off titles for the Move. Various ways they can go about that.

Perhaps they are making a profit now but the Move is fading fast.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)