I think that's completely wrong. You can't say that gameplay is completely objective while saying that presentation isn't. By your example, everything spoken about any game is subjective, and Ninja Bread Men can be better than Mario Galaxy.

In reality, depth is a key factor. While the gameplay in GoW is good, it isn't very original, and it isn't very deep. Bayonetta strikes a perfect balance there with difficulty, depth, and innovation.

Whatever people are saying that GoW has a better battle system than Bayonetta, I highly doubt those are people who have actually played Bayonetta.

What you have done, is marginalize Bayonetta in your head, probably to justify yourself not purchasing it. To most people, extreme quality differences are not really objective(and by that, I don't mean their opinion about the individual game, but their opinion about certain things superiority to others being a quantifiable fact ie Godfather II v Bloodrayne the film), Mario Galaxy is better than Ginger Bread Men, and Bayonetta's gameplay is much better than most other action games, especially DMC 2 and 4, and it is unarguably much deeper than any GoW game by any quantifable scale. That said, everyone has an opinion, but please play the game(if you have I apologize, but by your reasonings I assume you haven't, and I also assume that if you did, you would comment on your opinion rather than others) before stating things like "X isn't better than Y, because gameplay is objective." If you played X, you probably wouldn't agree with yourself.

Also, if everything ever written is subjective, why not buy this game for the hell of it. You just might like it. Most owners do as do most critics. It's got a better chance than anything to be a superior AAA game in your own subjective opinion.

@ all.

tried both demos, thats ample enough to have a try of the combat. wasnt impressed.

this isnt a niche game, the reason ppl dont want it because game isnt a good title. you best keeping your cash for upcoming games.

dantes inferno craps on this.

if you was to get this your best wait a month or two, its not worth full price.

ive nothing against any1 who loves bayonetta each to thier own, i usually look 4ward to try out new games off all kinds anyway, but with bayonetta well.... i wont be getting it.

Bayonetta will be the greatest action game of all time, until God Of War 3 comes out.

Why? because Bayonetta it's 80% DMC + some redefined gameplay + new character + new story
-The game failed, it didn't sell more than 1M across both platforms, i don't think it will.
-Platinum Games can't even make a good port of their best selling platform.
-The main character is not appealing at all.
-The combat is not redefining anything.

Why GOW3 will be the greatest action game of all time?

-it'll be the best selling hack & slash game.
-The best story you can find in this genre, great design too.
-Great graphics running at 60fps.
-Main character appealing.
-The combat redefined the genre ( see darksiders, dante's inferno, and other games which tries to "steal" the best of it )

this is my opinion, i have to say that i don't like BAYONETTA at all, it looks dull to me, just because itagaki created the game it doesn't mean it's good, the game it's the same from DMC to me.

Basing your opinion about a games quality on a demo, is ignorant.

Comparing this game to an unreleased title in a derogatory way, is ignorant.

Saying that sales are an absolute indication of quality is ignorant.

Saying this game isn't a good title is ignorant, imho, and I believe that you just made that post to make people angry. I believe that you dislike this game because you are a huge Sony supporter. I believe that this game represents a double threat to you, because it is inferior on the PS3 and it competes with GoWIII. I believe you have already decided that GoWIII is a great game without ever having played it, just like you obviously decided this game sucked long before the demo is released. I believe you made these comments I've quoted to marginalize this game, and to piss people off, and though it's not trolling, it certainly is flamebait, in this, a pro bayonetta thread.

Overall, that post not only makes me think less about your opinion, it also makes me question your judgement about any content you've ever reviewed. If you believe that a demo is more than enough to completely trash a game, then I believe you're the type of person who wouldn't have any qualms about prejudging a game based on nothing at all, and you certainly don't have a complete grasp of this genre or any genre where depth is a key factor in gameplay if you truely believe that said depth is irrelivant when reviewing a game based on a demo.

The game is ok but it isn't the best action game ever.
One flaw I usually see in exclaimations of ppls claiming the game is such a thing is they always say to discount some aspects of the game, I'm sorry but if it's the greatest it should be the greatest in every area.
My personnal biggest beef about the game is how sucky scoring is in the game and how useless the leaderboard is...Score and time should be tied together like in DMC or NG to make a final score instead of encouraging ppls to work on doing as little damage as possible as long as possible to the enemies in order to get the combo score multiplier higher before you start really damaging the enemy...

this feature alone kills replayability....

Then you have the stupid cutscenes that take forever to be skipped...

And otherwise I do know what I am talking about.
I cleared normal and hard, cleared all Alfheim and started clearing infinite climax difficulty...( more than those ppls that claim it is the best game ever and have hardly played the game more than a dozen hours...).

Ummm,.... I like Bayonetta.... me likeee a lot but, I wouldn't give it that title. Not when i consider how long I played streets of rage and a lot of those other old action games from back then, sure they were plain, but the replay value was amazing, the only replay value Boyanetta really has is to earn all the achievements and upgrades. so no not the greatest

But a superb game none the less. definitely one of the best action games of the last few years

exactly you replay NG or DMCs game to strive for perfection, get a better score and so on, Bayonetta doesn't really offer this ( you can have the best leaderboard score with a chapter in which you died 100 times....)

How do you know the combat didn't redefine anything if you never played it? I think that this game will change action games in the future.

Also, here is a major thing. You gave as good of an opinion as you could have given up until the last line. You implied that the game isn't good which contradicts your very first statement. At the very least, it's good. No arguing that. Play it if you don't believe that.

Another thing wrong with your opinion is that you believe the combat in GoW redefined the genre. That's not true to the extent that you believe it to be true. A few games copied the formula for GoW, and to a lesser extent the gamplay, however many, many more games, including GoW, copied the formula, and to a lesser extent the gameplay, from DMC.

Hideki Kamiya, the creator of DMC, also created Bayonetta.

Itagaki didn't.

I don't know where you got the idea that Itagaki created Bayonetta....???

However, usually, and correct me if I'm wrong, with Kamiya directs a game, it is at least good, if not genre changing.

You do know that action games have had a dodge button for ages right ?