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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan First Day Sales 12/10 (Tales of Graces and other games)

Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:

NEXT WEEK PEOPLE:

On that cover, is that the entire playable party?



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Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
Chrizum said:
bardicverse said:

Here's an interesting tidbit - Even if ToG reaches only 250k, it will still be more profitable to have developed than ToV on the HD systems in Japan. Thus, the dev will be more enticed to bring more Tales games to the Wii than the HD systems.

Right, and you know this how? ToV has sold close to 530k. Even if Tales of Graces reaches 250k (which it won't), it hasn't even sold half of ToV, and at a lower price, too. Sure, development costs are lower on the Wii, but definitely not 3 times as low for a game that has production values up to par with ToV.

Tales of Graces will definitely reach 250k. Quote me on it.



Son1x on 11 December 2009
Yakuzaice said:
outlawauron said:
Innervate said:
It's still far too early to label this game anything. Let's wait and hear what the gamers have to say about the game. Many factors must be taken into consideration. If this game ends up selling worse than Symphonia 2, an inferior game, then there must be a reason for it. Symphonia was one of the most successful Tales game, so I see why many people bought its sequel despite its quality.

Tales of Symphonia only sold 330k lifetime in Japan if I remember correctly. Most of its sales came from America.

310k on Gamecube, 438k on PS2.

486k on PS2.



"And yet, I've realized that maybe living a "decent" life means you won't ever have a "good" life."

 

darthdevidem01 on 11 December 2009
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
darthdevidem01 said:

NEXT WEEK PEOPLE:

On that cover, is that the entire playable party?

yes, EXCEPT for the girl right at the front, lightning sister, serah

well its not confirmed she's not playable, but we know 6 characters are playable & we have seen all others in battle except for serah, so we can assume she isn't playable



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Majin-Tenshinhan on 11 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
darthdevidem01 said:

NEXT WEEK PEOPLE:

On that cover, is that the entire playable party?

yes, EXCEPT for the girl right at the front, lightning sister, serah

well its not confirmed she's not playable, but we know 6 characters are playable & we have seen all others in battle except for serah, so we can assume she isn't playable

Alright. The only ones I weren't sure were playable were Serah and that blonde kid way in the back.



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jonop on 11 December 2009

wow winning eleven numbers are really bad. I guess more people are buying it on ps3 now.



VivaLaWiida on 11 December 2009
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
VivaLaWiida said:
We haven't seen the sales of the first week, so stop whining.
I'm confident that ToG will sell at least 250k in Japan, which isn't either a flop or a major success.
Besides I don't think that the hardware bundles were inlcluded so it should even sell more the first week than we actually think.

Yeah, I think first week sales will eclipse first day sales greater than for previous Tales-titles. But are you sure about the hardware bundles not being counted? Because if they aren't, then sales will likely be quite a bit higher than most people are expecting.

Unfortunately I'm not sure, but aren't hardware bundles counted separately in Japan?

@darth

Stop confronting me with Final Fantasy XIII!!! I'm thinking about this game every day even at school and it makes me sad not being able to play this wonderful game!



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ethomaz on 11 December 2009
darthdevidem01 said:

NEXT WEEK PEOPLE:

...

Next week Famistu and Media Create only cover the PS3 and FFXIII sales.

The others consoles will be nothing.



bardicverse on 11 December 2009
starterman1989 said:
bardicverse said:
woopah said:
I thought over 100k was good .....

No, its only good when its for the PS3 apparently, as ToV launch had shown. If its for the Wii, its a major bomb, despite costing less than half the production costs of the PS3 game. It takes people like Tres to troll the topic and make multiple posts to make sure people see it this way, weren't you aware?

Here's an interesting tidbit - Even if ToG reaches only 250k, it will still be more profitable to have developed than ToV on the HD systems in Japan. Thus, the dev will be more enticed to bring more Tales games to the Wii than the HD systems.

Interesting statement... Any data to back it up? Development cost, maybe? Retailer cut, platform holder royalty, promotion fee, or revenue calculation? Seems like you know quite a bit. *_*

Should we roll out the generic profit map again? Average Wii development is 6.5 mil dollars. Average HD development is 18 mil dollars.

After retailer cut, average $50 game, publisher receives roughly 40, after cost return for manufacturing, advertising, etc, roughly $20 is left for profit.

Depending on the contract, the developer is given money ahead of time to produce the game. When X amount of sales are made, they then take in profit. Generally this number is around 500k units in basic markets. So, until the game hits that agreed upon number, the actual dev doesn't get any royalty money. So, by that, no Tales game has ever provided a royalty to the developer yet.

Backtracking, we have this concept of $20 profit to the publisher per game sold, and an investment of 7 mil to develop a Wii game and 18 mil for a PS3 game.

Current numbers put ToV at 370k roughly. 370x20 =   $7,400,000

Current numbers put ToS at 250k roughly. 250x20 = $5,000,000

Granted, this is a ballpark figure, as both games operate at a loss which no publisher would stand for, but the general ballpark puts ToS closer to its break-even/profit line than ToV does. 

There is a flex point to the development costs, naturally, as party games and non AAA titles tend to run cheaper on all systems. AAA games on Wii can reach 15 mil and PS3 AAA games can escalate to 30-60 mil.

Edit- So, some people are stating 700k for Tov, for WW, where I was specifically talking about Japan here. Yet, do the same math = 700k x20 = $14 mil , still shy of the average production cost/profit margin for a HD game.



darthdevidem01 on 11 December 2009
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
darthdevidem01 said:

NEXT WEEK PEOPLE:

On that cover, is that the entire playable party?

yes, EXCEPT for the girl right at the front, lightning sister, serah

well its not confirmed she's not playable, but we know 6 characters are playable & we have seen all others in battle except for serah, so we can assume she isn't playable

Alright. The only ones I weren't sure were playable were Serah and that blonde kid way in the back.

he is playable

we even know his summon is Alexander



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey