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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan First Day Sales 12/10 (Tales of Graces and other games)

jarrod on 11 December 2009
Son1x said:
Yakuzaice said:
outlawauron said:
Innervate said:
It's still far too early to label this game anything. Let's wait and hear what the gamers have to say about the game. Many factors must be taken into consideration. If this game ends up selling worse than Symphonia 2, an inferior game, then there must be a reason for it. Symphonia was one of the most successful Tales game, so I see why many people bought its sequel despite its quality.

Tales of Symphonia only sold 330k lifetime in Japan if I remember correctly. Most of its sales came from America.

310k on Gamecube, 438k on PS2.

486k on PS2.

Famitsu has 390k + 48k BEST.  Namco claimed to have shipped 390k.



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Son1x on 11 December 2009
jarrod said:
Son1x said:
Yakuzaice said:
outlawauron said:
Innervate said:
It's still far too early to label this game anything. Let's wait and hear what the gamers have to say about the game. Many factors must be taken into consideration. If this game ends up selling worse than Symphonia 2, an inferior game, then there must be a reason for it. Symphonia was one of the most successful Tales game, so I see why many people bought its sequel despite its quality.

Tales of Symphonia only sold 330k lifetime in Japan if I remember correctly. Most of its sales came from America.

310k on Gamecube, 438k on PS2.

486k on PS2.

Famitsu has 390k + 48k BEST.  Namco claimed to have shipped 390k.

http://www.bandainamcogames.co.jp/corporate/press/pdf/53-026.pdf

PS2 テイルズ オブ シンフォニア 2004/9/22 486,000



"And yet, I've realized that maybe living a "decent" life means you won't ever have a "good" life."

 

jarrod on 11 December 2009
Son1x said:
jarrod said:
Son1x said:
Yakuzaice said:
outlawauron said:
Innervate said:
It's still far too early to label this game anything. Let's wait and hear what the gamers have to say about the game. Many factors must be taken into consideration. If this game ends up selling worse than Symphonia 2, an inferior game, then there must be a reason for it. Symphonia was one of the most successful Tales game, so I see why many people bought its sequel despite its quality.

Tales of Symphonia only sold 330k lifetime in Japan if I remember correctly. Most of its sales came from America.

310k on Gamecube, 438k on PS2.

486k on PS2.

Famitsu has 390k + 48k BEST.  Namco claimed to have shipped 390k.

http://www.bandainamcogames.co.jp/corporate/press/pdf/53-026.pdf

PS2 テイルズ オブ シンフォニア 2004/9/22 486,000

Huh?  As it was a special series PR I'm guessing they're adding in BEST versions with the totals?  They don't usually do that in the IR statements?

Also, Tempest shipped 301k?!  lol, what landfill did those end up in. 



bardicverse on 11 December 2009
c0rd said:
bardicverse said:
woopah said:
I thought over 100k was good .....

No, its only good when its for the PS3 apparently, as ToV launch had shown. If its for the Wii, its a major bomb, despite costing less than half the production costs of the PS3 game. It takes people like Tres to troll the topic and make multiple posts to make sure people see it this way, weren't you aware?

Here's an interesting tidbit - Even if ToG reaches only 250k, it will still be more profitable to have developed than ToV on the HD systems in Japan. Thus, the dev will be more enticed to bring more Tales games to the Wii than the HD systems.

Tales of Vesperia on the HD consoles (360 and PS3 included) will probably end around 550k lifetime. We don't know which is more profitable, but I doubt it cost that much more than Graces - I'd bet on ToV.

110k first day may not be bad, but it's certainly not good. It still has a chance at high sales, but for now, it's hard not to be disappointed.

Remember, the majority of the dev costs are in the art area. No matter how much you try, you're limited by poly count on Wii game models, where there's a much higher ceiling on the HD systems. The higher the poly model, the more time/resources, which increases cost. The graphics creation process is the major reason for the difference in dev costs. This is why some devs use the Wii as a cash cow, can turn a profit much easier as long as the game doesnt flop outright.



Achilles on 11 December 2009

gosh, sumrai spirits Sen sales are disappointment. As for me I'm really looking forward to get my hands on that game. Any release date for the West?



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jarrod on 11 December 2009

Bundles should be counted. I tend to agree it'll be less frontloaded than the usual Tales due to to the platform and holiday season (both were also true for Hearts).

Sad to see how far Tales has fallen though. I still remember the 600-800k days on PS2. :/



starterman1989 on 11 December 2009
bardicverse said:
starterman1989 said:
bardicverse said:
woopah said:
I thought over 100k was good .....

No, its only good when its for the PS3 apparently, as ToV launch had shown. If its for the Wii, its a major bomb, despite costing less than half the production costs of the PS3 game. It takes people like Tres to troll the topic and make multiple posts to make sure people see it this way, weren't you aware?

Here's an interesting tidbit - Even if ToG reaches only 250k, it will still be more profitable to have developed than ToV on the HD systems in Japan. Thus, the dev will be more enticed to bring more Tales games to the Wii than the HD systems.

Interesting statement... Any data to back it up? Development cost, maybe? Retailer cut, platform holder royalty, promotion fee, or revenue calculation? Seems like you know quite a bit. *_*

Should we roll out the generic profit map again? Average Wii development is 6.5 mil dollars. Average HD development is 18 mil dollars.

After retailer cut, average $50 game, publisher receives roughly 40, after cost return for manufacturing, advertising, etc, roughly $20 is left for profit.

Depending on the contract, the developer is given money ahead of time to produce the game. When X amount of sales are made, they then take in profit. Generally this number is around 500k units in basic markets. So, until the game hits that agreed upon number, the actual dev doesn't get any royalty money. So, by that, no Tales game has ever provided a royalty to the developer yet.

Backtracking, we have this concept of $20 profit to the publisher per game sold, and an investment of 7 mil to develop a Wii game and 18 mil for a PS3 game.

Current numbers put ToV at 370k roughly. 370x20 =   $7,400,000

Current numbers put ToS at 250k roughly. 250x20 = $5,000,000

Granted, this is a ballpark figure, as both games operate at a loss which no publisher would stand for, but the general ballpark puts ToS closer to its break-even/profit line than ToV does. 

There is a flex point to the development costs, naturally, as party games and non AAA titles tend to run cheaper on all systems. AAA games on Wii can reach 15 mil and PS3 AAA games can escalate to 30-60 mil.

Edit- So, some people are stating 700k for Tov, for WW, where I was specifically talking about Japan here. Yet, do the same math = 700k x20 = $14 mil , still shy of the average production cost/profit margin for a HD game.

Ah... interesting, so Wii games & HD games provide the same profit /unit sold? The same profit / unit sold... Is it Japan only, or similar worldwide?



For your entertainment:

http://ningin.com/mediastream/item:show/2008/11/21/megaman-movie-official-trailer/

Son1x on 11 December 2009

Looking at predictions, wow some of us were off.
I predicted 250k FW/510k LTD
darth predicted 270k FW/500k LTD

*laughs at his own prediction*



"And yet, I've realized that maybe living a "decent" life means you won't ever have a "good" life."

 

jarrod on 11 December 2009

Also, what the hell's Konami going to do with WE. PS3 game did better this year, but not enough to counter the massive slide with the PSP/PS2 versions. I wonder if positioning it on PS3/360 first the past 3 years hasn't been a mistake ultimately, would things be better if they'd gone PSP/Wii first then HD versions?



darthdevidem01 on 11 December 2009
Son1x said:
Looking at predictions, wow some of us were off.
I predicted 250k FW/510k LTD
darth predicted 270k FW/500k LTD

*laughs at his own prediction*

well it was made by Team Destiny, its a MAIN FLAGSHIP tales, the famitsu review was very positive

I expected it to do close to what TOV did on PS360 combined

oh well....I hope that little game coming next week won't disappoint me



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey