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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Anouma: Ocarina of Time really doesn't hold up nowadays

The Ghost of RubangB on 23 November 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
This is the best Aonuma quote since "Link's Awakening is the quintessential isometric Zelda." I love this guy. He seems to share my tastes exactly.

For me, the 3-D Zeldas have each been better than the last, but nobody has seemed to notice 'cuz they're all in love with the first 3-D game of every franchise: Mario 64, Ocarina, and FF7.

I think you're the last person in the world who should  be talking about Nostalgia not clouding your judgement, Rubang.

You practicaly live in the 8 bit era, despite the 16 bit era being better in almost every way.

The 16 bit era is better in every way, but the 8 bit era is more important!  It's the whole evolution vs. revolution thing.

And it's happening again with the Wii being the new NES, and shaking up the whole industry.  Next gen is going to be the Super Wii Entertainment System, and blow everything away.

Not if Sony and MS have anything to say about it.  Remember, the Super NES had dominance because it followed the most successful console of all time.  The Wii is going to be followed up by a Nintendo console with virtually no third party support and a still unproven Nintendo hold in the market.  Plus, we don't even know what direction Nintendo is going to go (focus on graphics, focus on 'waggle', focus on balancing the two, create a whole new gaming platform, etc).

Sony and MS have already put their chips on the table.  Their hope is to make the Wii2 before Nintendo does, and make it bigger and more powerful.

Next gen will be 3 Wii2s.  Or if they really go nuts, Nintendo might try something a little different and make a Wii 2.1 or something.



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SHMUPGurus on 23 November 2009

Damn Rubang, you have the same philosophy as me about the Wii. Can't wait for the Super Wii and more hardcore games to come on it!



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Avinash_Tyagi on 23 November 2009

Time to bring back 2D Zelda Anouma



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

arsenicazure on 24 November 2009
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
This is the best Aonuma quote since "Link's Awakening is the quintessential isometric Zelda." I love this guy. He seems to share my tastes exactly.

For me, the 3-D Zeldas have each been better than the last, but nobody has seemed to notice 'cuz they're all in love with the first 3-D game of every franchise: Mario 64, Ocarina, and FF7.

I think you're the last person in the world who should  be talking about Nostalgia not clouding your judgement, Rubang.

You practicaly live in the 8 bit era, despite the 16 bit era being better in almost every way.

The 16 bit era is better in every way, but the 8 bit era is more important!  It's the whole evolution vs. revolution thing.

And it's happening again with the Wii being the new NES, and shaking up the whole industry.  Next gen is going to be the Super Wii Entertainment System, and blow everything away.

well the SNES was actually a step down for ninty from the mighty days of NES, where it held the market unabated. compared to near market monopoly for ther NES, the SNES could only muster roughly 50-60% of the marketshare. So super wii comparison? I dont think so. The N64 took things lower and the GC even lower... so if ninty's market trends are any indication the super wii should be weaker than the wii(cherry picking).. 

For me, 16 bit was soo much better.. the visuals were much more easier on the eyes.. mainly coz they didnt look like EGA/CGA with siezure inducing flashing blocks of light randomly and the controls got a lot better too.. yes the genesis 6 button kicked ass!

 



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Helios on 24 November 2009

I am very happy Aonuma is saying this. I worried for a bit that he might be stuck in a regressive mindset because of how he used to say he wanted to surpass OoT with TP. However, I don't think OoT is a game that can be topped in the mind of the public by beating it at its own game. People are right in saying OoT was amazing for its time - it is to this day considered the quintessential adventure game, and with its powerful archetypal story and atmosphere it is exceedingly hard to better it without coming off as a knock-off. Moreover, some of the cinematography in that game still amazes me, considering the technical limitations of the time.

Yet, as he admits here, OoT is not a perfect game and many facets of its design are outdated. The Zelda series would do well to lose that baggage.

It should be noted, Majora's Mask is by far my favorite 3D Zelda, followed by TWW, followed by OoT. Aonuma's oeuvre, when he is not trying to emulate old material, speaks for itself. If OoT can be "bested", I don't know. Nor do I really care. No, as long as Aonuma continues making games in his own style, I will be more than happy.



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forest-spirit on 24 November 2009

Of course OoT won't hold up as well these days. OoT was very revolutionary when it came and was hailed for it's targeting system and action button among other things, but these features has been improved on since then.

OoT still is my favourite Zelda though, and I'm currently playing it for the somethingth time.

I have no problem with what Anouma says, only that it sets the bar for Zelda Wii at a level that will be very hard to reach, and I will be comparing my experience with Zelda Wii with what I experienced playing Zelda OoT. I expect a revolution.



RageBot on 24 November 2009
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
RageBot said:
Ofcourse games like OoT don't age well, it's importance was the revolution it caused in gaming and most importantly - gameplay.
Games that age well are games that have usually perfected a formula and got to the point of "looking really good", because of the, A link to the past aged a lot better than Ocarina of time.

Another type of game that ages well are games that the most important aspect of them is the plot, games like Deus Ex, Planescape: Torment and various JRPGs, pepole still play them today, and are still amazed by them, not because of the gameplay, graphics, or anything that is "important" to a "game", but because of their plot.

But Ocarina of Time perfected the formula Zelda was going for.  Including the formula Link to the Past was going for.

The only reason you can say Ocarina doesn't hold up to the current standard is either its visual presentation (graphics of course get better) or its technical limitations) which of course, being the first to do many things, it would eventually be surpassed).

However, it really says something that almost 10 years after the fact, Ocarina of Time is still so solid and fun to play.  And even has a better camera and targeting system than some contemporary action games.  The thing I think Miyamoto has been saying and even Anouma was trying to say here (in his rather downplaying tone) was that the next Zelda has to do something completely new than just be a graphical upgrade.  It has to re-invent everything, like Ocarina did with Z-Targeting and cinematic storytelling in a fully rendered 3D world.

Exactly, it perfected the 2D formula, in 3D, it was revolutionary, but as a 3D game, it had more problems than LttP had as a 2D game.

And that's why in my opinion, LttP aged better than OoT.

I mean, some of the pepole who I know that started playing Zelda today, prefered LttP over OoT.



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--OkeyDokey-- on 24 November 2009

This is good to hear. Every Zelda since OoT has stuck pretty strictly to the formula. By admitting the formula is now outdated, Aouma is admitting the series is in need of an overhaul.

I'm expecting to be amazed by Zelda Wii.



Avinash_Tyagi on 24 November 2009
arsenicazure said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Johann said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
This is the best Aonuma quote since "Link's Awakening is the quintessential isometric Zelda." I love this guy. He seems to share my tastes exactly.

For me, the 3-D Zeldas have each been better than the last, but nobody has seemed to notice 'cuz they're all in love with the first 3-D game of every franchise: Mario 64, Ocarina, and FF7.

I think you're the last person in the world who should  be talking about Nostalgia not clouding your judgement, Rubang.

You practicaly live in the 8 bit era, despite the 16 bit era being better in almost every way.

The 16 bit era is better in every way, but the 8 bit era is more important!  It's the whole evolution vs. revolution thing.

And it's happening again with the Wii being the new NES, and shaking up the whole industry.  Next gen is going to be the Super Wii Entertainment System, and blow everything away.

well the SNES was actually a step down for ninty from the mighty days of NES, where it held the market unabated. compared to near market monopoly for ther NES, the SNES could only muster roughly 50-60% of the marketshare. So super wii comparison? I dont think so. The N64 took things lower and the GC even lower... so if ninty's market trends are any indication the super wii should be weaker than the wii(cherry picking)..

For me, 16 bit was soo much better.. the visuals were much more easier on the eyes.. mainly coz they didnt look like EGA/CGA with siezure inducing flashing blocks of light randomly and the controls got a lot better too.. yes the genesis 6 button kicked ass!

 


  Thing was, the reason for the decline was Nintendo abandoned its disruptive ways, Reggie knows this which is why he said no Wii HD, the next Nintendo won't be a super Wii, it'll have to be a disruptor



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

The Ghost of RubangB on 24 November 2009

I wasn't talking about marketshare or profit or anything like that.

I was just talking about how badass the games and the game designs were.

NES changed absolutely everything, SNES and Genesis followed the NES way of thinking.
N64 made the jump to 3-D graphics, analog controls, camera controls, Z-targetting, and rumble. PS1 made the jump to discs. Every system since has been the bastard child of an N64 and a PS1.
Wii changed absolutely everything, and everything is following the Wii way of thinking with new motion controllers.



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