Ok how do I explain this with your chips...

If you ate the WHOLE bag, magically refilled it, and gave it to someone else to eat  all of the chips and charging them for it. That's the equivalent of used sales. Why? The value of chips is the food, so you use up all of the value and then someone else does so without them paying the producers. Same with video games, the value is in the expereince, which you finish then pass off to someone else. Basically 2 people have used the "value" of the game and the devs only saw only one payment.

In case of a picture/drawing, the value is in the aesthetic it provides in your house. The equivalent would indeed be a forgery, where another person also reaps the benefits of the "value" without paying the person who's creation it is.

@STAGE

That's the 360 no the software on it.

So selling old car is moral, but selling old game is not?
Why it isn`t immoral to have infinitive profit from intellectual property?

Why consumer is not getting the right to license the IP to anyone else? Why it`s NOT FAIR to consumers rights?

Why consumers are getting only some license, but not the product itself? Are consumers TOOLS?

As Vlad showed with EULA (End-User License Agreement) publishers, buying or selling used games against their rules. You only have the right to own the game. The question remains.....what if you want to get rid of the game? Trash it? What are they going to do....arrest us? This is why they hate physical ownership, used game sales, piracy and want to end it all with digital distribution. With that, the EULA has to be accepted.

Vlad is a self admitted pirate. We aren't. If publishers wanted to take out places like Gamestop, Amazon.com and Ebay, they would've done it already, but they would witness a consumer revolt. Only a minority of consumers know about EULA and if it is enforced publishers will have hell to pay and they know it. This is why they want digital distribution so damn much.

Lastly, Gamestop is one of the largest seller of new games. If publishers screw with them, they've lost a large amount of sales.

So again, you don't find chips comparable to a pill of a medicine?

WTF is up with the value shit? IP isn't about value. It's about the intellectual property. I can find value in anything I want. If we equate IP=non tangible value, that would be everything O.o

Look, let's use one definition, because you seem to be having a different definition about IP (and I'm sure we're not arguing about what IP means right? We're arguing good or bad, whether or not used games falls into the category of a breach in IP. We can't argue that if we don't even agree on the definition of IP rights)

From Wikipedia (if you don't like the source, or definition, please provide your own. I'll be happy as long as we can get some common ground.)

Intellectual property (IP) is a number of distinct types of (KEY WORD->) legal monopolies over creations of the mind, both artistic and commercial, and the corresponding fields of law.^[1] Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; ideas, discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Common types of intellectual property include copyrights, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions.

Although many of the legal principles governing intellectual property have evolved over centuries, it was not until the 19th century that the term intellectual property began to be used, and not until the late 20th century that it became commonplace in the United States.

When i`m buying a car, i get a car, not some license to drive that car. Am i right?

So why, i repeat, why with any other product it should be different???

The thread should be called: "Is it immoral to have infinitive profit from intellectual property?"

??? You have the right to own that car and do whatever you want to do with it. You don't have the right to produce the same car yourself using the technology, design, etc behind it: the IP.

"infinitive profit"- Please explain. I'm a bit lost, sorry >.<

Wow, so many users on this forum are sicophants for the publishers.

Once you buy a game you own it. It is your property. If you want to loan or resell it, that is fully within your rights. It is so ludicrous to even consider calling reselling games "immoral" that I scarcely know what to say in response. Should we all stop buying used cars because GM can't turn a profit despite billions in revenue? Stop swallowing the kool aid from the publishers who are whining insufferably and want to take away your personal property rights.

Let's be honest, we're not talking about supporting starving artists here, the gaming industry brings in billions of dollars, yet is so inefficiently managed that few companies turn a profit. Look at how well Nintendo runs their business, they "get" it. Companies that are hemorrhaging money do not "get" it. (How many users complain about lack of Wii 3rd party support and decisions like EA doing a "test" game with "Dead Space: On Rails Shooter"?)

If the games are good, people are going to buy them new and hang on to them (making it even harder to find used copies). If I buy a crappy game, I would like the peace of mind to know that I can resell it to recoup some of my losses, not to mention that I, like many gamers, often plow that resale money right back into new purchases.

And lending? Are you freaking serious? What, I'm somehow an immoral, mustachioed villian because I used to swap SNES cartridges with my childhood friends? Give me a break. I guess I never should have ridden my buddy's bicycle and put Schwinn out of business, or gone over his house and watched a VHS tape that I didn't own, or borrowed his "And Justice for All" cassette when my tape deck ate mine, or played his copy of Monopoly, or drank lemonade out of one of his glasses. I guess I'm just some parasitic slug on the backside of corporate America, an imorral borrower of objects--better not ask my neighbor for his chainsaw so I can cut down that leaning tree in my backyard, Stihl deserves their money same as everyone.

This is where I stopped reading. You don't udnerstand do you? Cars and video games aren't even remotely the same. Maybe if you used other digital media....

Also if I aren't supporting starving artists what the fuck is wrong with piracy then?

It's actually everyone vs Vlad at this point in the thread O.o

Seriously tell me the difference between these two:

Piracy: Getting value of something without the person who produced the value seeing anything in return.

Used game: Getting value of something without the person who prouced the value seeing anythign in return.