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Kasz216 on 25 August 2009
highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:

That's far different from saying Jesus didn't exist.

For example there is no historical evidence for Socrates until after his death.

The evidence comes mostly from his two students... who in reality could of been the same person... and then a parody on philosphers where "Socrates" is portrayed as the lead villian.

The Socrates proof is only slighlty stronger then Jesus because it happend closer to his death.

The truth is though... not much was written about anyone until they were dead... hell not much was written about anyone at all.

None of Socrates work really lives on however.

Jesus was... up until decades after his death... fairly unremarkable compaired to many other people... it wasn't until later that his story became worth writing because his movement started catching on to the mainstream.

Josephus is the biggest Jewish scholar... and he wrote in rome... exactly what the roman emperor wanted him to write... as did everybody in that period.  History was a state controlled tool back then.

 

To say Jesus didn't exist is basically to say nobody existed for sure until we developed video cameras... and do we please have the video tape.

 

Sure some of Jesus miracles were "top of the line" compared to miracle makers... but why should someone in Rome believe he did it?  which is pretty much where all the historians lived.  Even the ones who wrote about stuff in Judea.

I agree, I think the true facts behind most historical figures are highly debatable.

I wouldn't say Jesus didn't exist, the roots of the Christian movement had to start somewhere and I think it *could* started with a group as opposed to a single person. It's just that over time I think the 'group' has been changed to a single person through oral story telling and altering texts.

Perhaps my idea of the Christian movement had a spiritual leader which could be given an approximation to Jesus, but I don't think he is what we would call Jesus Christ* per se...

*I mean one guy travelling the land and helping/teaching people single handedly.

Except, that's how dozens of similar sects started. 

That was common practice for the starting of sects.  One charismatic rabi gathering a following and having people following him around "under" him.

It was all interpretation... so there was always going to be one head leader.

His disciples no doubt went out and preached the word too... afterall they all weren't there all the time.  However there is no reason to doubt anything written anymore then there is to doubt that socrates came up with everything that he wrote or that Picaso painted everything attibuted to him.



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Tyrannical on 26 August 2009

Jesus was a Judean. "Jesus the Nazarene King of the Judeans" was what was written over his cross, not King of the Jews.



Yet, today, America's leaders are reenacting every folly that brought these great powers [Russia, Germany, and Japan] to ruin -- from arrogance and hubris, to assertions of global hegemony, to imperial overstretch, to trumpeting new 'crusades,' to handing out war guarantees to regions and countries where Americans have never fought before. We are piling up the kind of commitments that produced the greatest disasters of the twentieth century.
 — Pat Buchanan – A Republic, Not an Empire

ManusJustus on 26 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
What, is this like the third time ManusJustus has gotten whooped in a religious argument?

Haha, you only make yourself look foolish.  And you are apparently still holding a grudge for me conitinually making you look silly.

Jesus was historically and ethnically a Jew.  Muslims believe that Jesus was a Muslim and that Christians and Jews failed to follow his true message.  If you ask a Christian the proposed question, Jesus was a Jew.  If you ask a Muslim that question, Jesus was a Muslim.  Thus the answer is both.

I should start charging you teaching fees.



MontanaHatchet on 26 August 2009
ManusJustus said:
MontanaHatchet said:
What, is this like the third time ManusJustus has gotten whooped in a religious argument?

Haha, you only make yourself look foolish.  And you are apparently still holding a grudge for me conitinually making you look silly.

Jesus was historically and ethnically a Jew.  Muslims believe that Jesus was a Muslim and that Christians and Jews failed to follow his true message.  If you ask a Christian the proposed question, Jesus was a Jew.  If you ask a Muslim that question, Jesus was a Muslim.  Thus the answer is both.

I should start charging you teaching fees.

Hey guys, Manus sent me an insulting PM. It was the most hilarious thing I've ever read. Should I still report him?

To you Manus, what was the incident where I made you look silly? Was it the incident where you insisted that Jesus was God? There's no question that Jesus was Jewish, but he was definitely not Muslim. The religion just didn't exist yet. He may have practiced beliefs that Islam is based off of, but anyone that thinks he was Muslim is just wrong. The answer isn't both because two different groups say it so. Jesus was Jewish. That's the end of it.

I should start *insert line displaying insecurity here*.



 

 

Jackson50 on 26 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
ManusJustus said:
MontanaHatchet said:
What, is this like the third time ManusJustus has gotten whooped in a religious argument?

Haha, you only make yourself look foolish.  And you are apparently still holding a grudge for me conitinually making you look silly.

Jesus was historically and ethnically a Jew.  Muslims believe that Jesus was a Muslim and that Christians and Jews failed to follow his true message.  If you ask a Christian the proposed question, Jesus was a Jew.  If you ask a Muslim that question, Jesus was a Muslim.  Thus the answer is both.

I should start charging you teaching fees.

Hey guys, Manus sent me an insulting PM. It was the most hilarious thing I've ever read. Should I still report him?

To you Manus, what was the incident where I made you look silly? Was it the incident where you insisted that Jesus was God? There's no question that Jesus was Jewish, but he was definitely not Muslim. The religion just didn't exist yet. He may have practiced beliefs that Islam is based off of, but anyone that thinks he was Muslim is just wrong. The answer isn't both because two different groups say it so. Jesus was Jewish. That's the end of it.

I should start *insert line displaying insecurity here*.

Haha, he also sent me an insulting PM. 



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ManusJustus on 26 August 2009

The message wasn't insulting, and for timesakes I sent you both the same ones.  Feel free to post it and attempt to explian why you insuled me in the first place.

Regardless wether you think Jesus was a Muslim or not, there are a lot of people (around a billion) that do.  Muslims believe this because they think that all of God's prophets recieved the same message from God (Jesus, Moses, etc.), but that Jews and Christians misinterpreted that message causing differences between Islam, Christianity, and Islam.

I said it 'depends who you ask' because that what really matters on a highly opiniated question like this.



highwaystar101 on 26 August 2009

Post the PMs Post the PMs Post the PMs Post the PMs

*Jumps up and down*



MontanaHatchet on 26 August 2009

The part where you said we have "intellectual inadequacies?"

And the least you could do is personalize each PM. Geez, so freakin' lazy...



 

 

Jackson50 on 26 August 2009
MontanaHatchet said:
The part where you said we have "intellectual inadequacies?"

And the least you could do is personalize each PM. Geez, so freakin' lazy...

Yeah, I thought I was special by receiving hatemail. Now...it means nothing to me.



ManusJustus on 26 August 2009

I'm guessing you concede the argument?

I dont expect an apology, but the least you could do is stop trying to not insult me when I post well understood facts.