By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - PS3 now 70% Cheaper to Produce!

Slimebeast on 31 July 2009
Munkeh111 said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Slimebeast said:
Kantor said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Well PS2 is definitely profitable from a hardware side, and now apparently the PS3 makes more profit that the PS2 sells for, and I think the PSP makes money

On a software side, SCE are definitely profitable, most of their games sell in excess of 1m copies


How can everything be profitable when overall Sony Entertainment has been posting losses for three years in a row?

You're just making things up.

The 1st party software is not profitable. Sony games have huge budgets and never sell well since the PSP/PS3 era. Also, when MS is selling away a lot of their first party you can suspect that Sony doesnt make profit on their 1st party either (but it still might be worth it overall, because 1st party games sell consoles, which in turn moves third party software). The little money Sony Entertainment makes comes from the $10 license fees from third party. 

SCE WWS has been profitable for a long time. The PS3, however, is still selling at a loss. Can you name any Sony games released recently which could feasibly have lost money?

All of them except MGS4 (and that is maybe not even published by Sony but Konami?).

Well, LBP i'd say indeed also made a profit.

Like Uncharted, which sold 2.5m on a $20m budget. Or Insomniac who manage to release a game which sell about 1.5m copies every year, with 150 people.

If SCE was losing money, do you really think that there would not have been any job cuts? Banjo did not sell enough, so Rare has had job cuts. SCE make Sony money, so they are not going to drop support of it

Im confused. Isnt it a well established fact that SCE has been losing 100's of millions of Dollars during the last three years?

Uncharted probably made a small profit, and yes, Insomniac are probably also profitabel. But u have to weight those two against all the other first party titles that are losin money. What abot Motorstorms? And so far KZ2 lost money. Hevenly Sword, Lair lost money.

Sorry, SCEWWS. So Motorstorm 1 sold 3.48m, but yeah it was bundled, but that is certainly plenty. Pacific Rift is very likely undertracked, it sold 1m according to the developer: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/motorstorm-pacific-rift-passes-one-million-sales.

Heavenly Sword sold about 1.4m, made by a team with only about 25 employees, in 3 years, so that would have had a reasonably small budget.

Yes, Lair was a flop

 

Motorstorm was bundled. Real retail copies was probably just 1 million. And I think Sony games are sold at retail for $50 instead of $60.
So only 1 million copies x $20 = $20 million. And being a early in generation game they made probably lots of newbie mistakes and thus the game got more expensive development. So Motorstorm profit estimate:
revenue $20 million
costs (budget $20 mill + marketing $15 million) $35 million
----------------------------
Motorstorm losses = $ 15 million

Pacifik Rift I dunno if it was bundled, but it was uge flop so I estimate it only shipped 750,000 copies to retail. Althoug it was also cheaper and marketed less:
revenue: (750,000 x $20) $15 mill
costs (budget $15 mill + marketing $10 million) $25 million
---------
Motorstorm 2 losses = $10 mill

Heavenly Sword I think was bundled somewhat, plus it was sold for rebate and bargain bin mostly. So per copy revenue was probably just $15 on 1 million copies (the rest, 400,000 I estimate were bundled) and thus total revenue only $15 mill.

It's well documented that HW cost $20 million (discussed on VGC). Add marketing and you got $30 mill.

Heavenly Sword losses = $15 million

Lair was even worse. Also rumured to have cost $20 mill. Same marketing, but worse sales.

Lair estimated losses = $20 million.



Then SOCOM and Warhawk probably lost a lot of money.



Around the Network
outlawauron on 31 July 2009

lol, Heavenly Sword marketing cost $10 million. You're just pulling out random numbers here Slimebeast.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

GameAnalyser on 31 July 2009

ps3 is anyway bound to pick up steam...let come the price-cut, in middle east, u can't imagine how much craze the console as well as the brand has received on. 360 doesn't sell so good anymore here.
And once PS3 motion control comes out, Wii sales will slowly continue to dwindle further yoy.



Slimebeast on 31 July 2009
outlawauron said:
lol, Heavenly Sword marketing cost $10 million. You're just pulling out random numbers here Slimebeast.


Well, marketing in this business is a big part of a publishers expenses. A general rule of thumb is to calculate marketing to be 50% of the development budget. And then adjust on a per game basis according to the general impression of how much the game was announced and amount of previews in media etc. Heavenly Sword was marketed at least as much as an average AAA game. 



GameAnalyser on 31 July 2009

yeah slimebeast...w/o halo3, gears1+2 i wonder how bad it wud've been, after all the statements on sony losses u made.



Around the Network
Skittles on 31 July 2009
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Slimebeast said:
Kantor said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Well PS2 is definitely profitable from a hardware side, and now apparently the PS3 makes more profit that the PS2 sells for, and I think the PSP makes money

On a software side, SCE are definitely profitable, most of their games sell in excess of 1m copies


How can everything be profitable when overall Sony Entertainment has been posting losses for three years in a row?

You're just making things up.

The 1st party software is not profitable. Sony games have huge budgets and never sell well since the PSP/PS3 era. Also, when MS is selling away a lot of their first party you can suspect that Sony doesnt make profit on their 1st party either (but it still might be worth it overall, because 1st party games sell consoles, which in turn moves third party software). The little money Sony Entertainment makes comes from the $10 license fees from third party. 

SCE WWS has been profitable for a long time. The PS3, however, is still selling at a loss. Can you name any Sony games released recently which could feasibly have lost money?

All of them except MGS4 (and that is maybe not even published by Sony but Konami?).

Well, LBP i'd say indeed also made a profit.

Like Uncharted, which sold 2.5m on a $20m budget. Or Insomniac who manage to release a game which sell about 1.5m copies every year, with 150 people.

If SCE was losing money, do you really think that there would not have been any job cuts? Banjo did not sell enough, so Rare has had job cuts. SCE make Sony money, so they are not going to drop support of it

Im confused. Isnt it a well established fact that SCE has been losing 100's of millions of Dollars during the last three years?

Uncharted probably made a small profit, and yes, Insomniac are probably also profitabel. But u have to weight those two against all the other first party titles that are losin money. What abot Motorstorms? And so far KZ2 lost money. Hevenly Sword, Lair lost money.

Sorry, SCEWWS. So Motorstorm 1 sold 3.48m, but yeah it was bundled, but that is certainly plenty. Pacific Rift is very likely undertracked, it sold 1m according to the developer: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/motorstorm-pacific-rift-passes-one-million-sales.

Heavenly Sword sold about 1.4m, made by a team with only about 25 employees, in 3 years, so that would have had a reasonably small budget.

Yes, Lair was a flop

 

Motorstorm was bundled. Real retail copies was probably just 1 million. And I think Sony games are sold at retail for $50 instead of $60.
So only 1 million copies x $20 = $20 million. And being a early in generation game they made probably lots of newbie mistakes and thus the game got more expensive development. So Motorstorm profit estimate:
revenue $20 million
costs (budget $20 mill + marketing $15 million) $35 million
----------------------------
Motorstorm losses = $ 15 million

Pacifik Rift I dunno if it was bundled, but it was uge flop so I estimate it only shipped 750,000 copies to retail. Althoug it was also cheaper and marketed less:
revenue: (750,000 x $20) $15 mill
costs (budget $15 mill + marketing $10 million) $25 million
---------
Motorstorm 2 losses = $10 mill

Heavenly Sword I think was bundled somewhat, plus it was sold for rebate and bargain bin mostly. So per copy revenue was probably just $15 on 1 million copies (the rest, 400,000 I estimate were bundled) and thus total revenue only $15 mill.

It's well documented that HW cost $20 million (discussed on VGC). Add marketing and you got $30 mill.

Heavenly Sword losses = $15 million

Lair was even worse. Also rumured to have cost $20 mill. Same marketing, but worse sales.

Lair estimated losses = $20 million.



Then SOCOM and Warhawk probably lost a lot of money.

I remember in a thread, that Sony made about 37 dollars(or more) on each game sold.



Prediction:

TGS this year for PS3 will be amazing.

Grandia comes to PSN(PSone classic).

First Versus gameplay this year.

The Adventures Of Duane and Brando

Slimebeast on 31 July 2009

I think there used to be this saying that an average HD game needed 500,000 copies to break even. Many of u remmember this.

Now, that's an average game by all publishers, not a game by Sony first party.

Sony first party games are on average a lot more expensive than the average games like Beowulf, Mirros Edge, NBA basket, Pirate of the Caribbien, Bee Movie, Alone in the dark, Far Cry 2, Army of two etc.

Now compare that to Sony first party:

Heavenly Sword
Lair
Uncharted
Motorstorm
Ratcher and Clank
Resistance
KZ2
Infamous

Those games are clearly a lot bigger budget. So break-even point must be several times 500,000 copies. At least 1 million (retail copies, not bundled! Bundled copies don't earn Sony even a dime).



Squall_Leonhart on 31 July 2009
outlawauron said:
lol, Heavenly Sword marketing cost $10 million. You're just pulling out random numbers here Slimebeast.

I agree with this ^^^ he seems just to be making up numbers to make Sony look in worse shape than they actually are! Unless backed up with actual sources then this is all in his own opinion, which could be seen to be a bit biased!



Slimebeast on 31 July 2009
Skittles said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Slimebeast said:
Kantor said:
Slimebeast said:
Munkeh111 said:
Well PS2 is definitely profitable from a hardware side, and now apparently the PS3 makes more profit that the PS2 sells for, and I think the PSP makes money

On a software side, SCE are definitely profitable, most of their games sell in excess of 1m copies


How can everything be profitable when overall Sony Entertainment has been posting losses for three years in a row?

You're just making things up.

The 1st party software is not profitable. Sony games have huge budgets and never sell well since the PSP/PS3 era. Also, when MS is selling away a lot of their first party you can suspect that Sony doesnt make profit on their 1st party either (but it still might be worth it overall, because 1st party games sell consoles, which in turn moves third party software). The little money Sony Entertainment makes comes from the $10 license fees from third party. 

SCE WWS has been profitable for a long time. The PS3, however, is still selling at a loss. Can you name any Sony games released recently which could feasibly have lost money?

All of them except MGS4 (and that is maybe not even published by Sony but Konami?).

Well, LBP i'd say indeed also made a profit.

Like Uncharted, which sold 2.5m on a $20m budget. Or Insomniac who manage to release a game which sell about 1.5m copies every year, with 150 people.

If SCE was losing money, do you really think that there would not have been any job cuts? Banjo did not sell enough, so Rare has had job cuts. SCE make Sony money, so they are not going to drop support of it

Im confused. Isnt it a well established fact that SCE has been losing 100's of millions of Dollars during the last three years?

Uncharted probably made a small profit, and yes, Insomniac are probably also profitabel. But u have to weight those two against all the other first party titles that are losin money. What abot Motorstorms? And so far KZ2 lost money. Hevenly Sword, Lair lost money.

Sorry, SCEWWS. So Motorstorm 1 sold 3.48m, but yeah it was bundled, but that is certainly plenty. Pacific Rift is very likely undertracked, it sold 1m according to the developer: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/motorstorm-pacific-rift-passes-one-million-sales.

Heavenly Sword sold about 1.4m, made by a team with only about 25 employees, in 3 years, so that would have had a reasonably small budget.

Yes, Lair was a flop

 

Motorstorm was bundled. Real retail copies was probably just 1 million. And I think Sony games are sold at retail for $50 instead of $60.
So only 1 million copies x $20 = $20 million. And being a early in generation game they made probably lots of newbie mistakes and thus the game got more expensive development. So Motorstorm profit estimate:
revenue $20 million
costs (budget $20 mill + marketing $15 million) $35 million
----------------------------
Motorstorm losses = $ 15 million

Pacifik Rift I dunno if it was bundled, but it was uge flop so I estimate it only shipped 750,000 copies to retail. Althoug it was also cheaper and marketed less:
revenue: (750,000 x $20) $15 mill
costs (budget $15 mill + marketing $10 million) $25 million
---------
Motorstorm 2 losses = $10 mill

Heavenly Sword I think was bundled somewhat, plus it was sold for rebate and bargain bin mostly. So per copy revenue was probably just $15 on 1 million copies (the rest, 400,000 I estimate were bundled) and thus total revenue only $15 mill.

It's well documented that HW cost $20 million (discussed on VGC). Add marketing and you got $30 mill.

Heavenly Sword losses = $15 million

Lair was even worse. Also rumured to have cost $20 mill. Same marketing, but worse sales.

Lair estimated losses = $20 million.



Then SOCOM and Warhawk probably lost a lot of money.

I remember in a thread, that Sony made about 37 dollars(or more) on each game sold.

Well, it's a mith.

Never Ive seen on VGC written realistic revenue from each copy sold.

Not just about Sony games, but all games, people seem to believe that revenue that goes to developer/publisher is $35-40.

That's just not true. I estimate it being $25, but even if I reached up to $30 those games above would still have lost Sony more than $5 million per title.



Slimebeast on 31 July 2009

Uncharted profit analysis:

Budget: $20 million (official number)
marketing: $10 million (low estimation)
Total expenses = $30 million


Total lifetime copies shipped: 2.5 million
- of which 1.25 million bundled
- of which 1.25 million sold at retail

Revenue: 1.25 million x $30 million (generous estimation of per copy revenue) = $37.5 million

Profit: $37.5 - $30 mill = $7.5 million