@ ironman.

Turn-10 have done in 3 games what PD did in 5?
Are you sane?
The lowest selling Gran Turismo game has sold more than Forza and Forza 2 combined.

GT5 will sell a couple of hundred copies to the friends and family of Polyphony digital and Forza 3 won't even manage that. They will have to give the copies away and thus sales will be zero.

@Carl, yes this is supposed to be a sales thread, but the OP is clearly a fanboy, and flamebated...which attrackted all the othe fanboys wanting to FAP over the OP...I'm just here to counter their blindness with reason.

Erm, yes, yes they did, graphics wise, game play wise, hype wise. I was not talking about sales....but even that may be too close for your comfort.

so you came clean with the fact you got no clue about GT you have never palyed it, good for you kid.

To millions of people no rally means NO buy k, tell the average consumer in Europe you got two racing games both balhh blahh as good  then tell then one has rally and the other don't and watch +90% choose the one with rally.

MAJOR differance..  of course U would not see it.

Red- Very highly debateable, not to mention that Gran Turismo hasn't seen a full release on current gen hardware. But if you wanna count it, GT5:P looks better than Forza 2. We cant really compare F3 and GT5 until we see actual gameplay footage from GT5, but going from the trailer (what is said to be the game engine) it will beat Forza 3... especially the rally parts.

Blue- Debatable, but depends on personal preferences.

Green- No, nowhere near the amount of hype Gran Turismo games get.

Orange- Hell no. Everybody with half a braincell knows Forza wont hold a candle to Gran Turismo in sales. As i recently said, Gran Turismos lowest selling game has outsold both current Forzas combined. There is a reason for that... brand name. Its like putting Sackboy up against Mario, Sackboy doesn't stand a chance.

As for your "reason"... from what ive read all you have done is play down anything positive someone says about Gran Turismo and calling them "fanboys". Those are some awesome reasoning skills you got there.

Im going to bed now, its half 5 in the morning.

But if you bother to reply, il look when i come online.

And of course twingo has to bring his worhless keister into the argument with statments that have no fact behind them. 

While I have not played GT I have a brother in law who is a car junkie, and plays any racing game he can get his hands on (unlike some of the shit heads who claim to be gamers), he played most of the GT series, I know a lot from him. Also,  Ihave done research, I have seen the videos, I have read the reviews. Sorry mate, but once again, you don't know what you are talking about. Rally vs. No rally, not a differance in terms of gameplay. Millions of normal people (not fanboys) won't give a crap about the rally racing. So, yeah,  Isee clearly that there will be very little differance. But then, I suppose you are one of the people toting the no damge of the past as a minor differance...and that may be to some, but to true racing sim fans, that is not the case. Nice try though. it was fun destroying you...wanna go another round? cuz I got more lead for your fanboy ass. 

It can work, you just have to flip it around a bit: Anyone who doesn't buy GT5 is NOT a true racing fan

As for PES, that is actually considerably better than FIFA and any football fan (or anybody with anything resembling taste) will buy it over FIFA, but that's a topic for another day.

You're having a laugh there, is that why there is so many manufacturers who have pulled out of rally then.  Rally isn't as huge as it was in the 80's and 90's, in part due to the dominance of Loeb I would imagine.  I'm not saying most Rally fans wont be Europe based but it's not a big selling point like Nascar is in the US or F1 would be in Europe.  You may have had a point if you'd chose Nascar for your example but saying Rally kind of reverses your sarcasm laced post about another users knowledge of motorsport onto yourself imo.

I really don't think you've been having a Fanboy attitude, you're just trying to be neutral when it comes to both games as well as giving your personal insight, there's nothing wrong about that ;)

I know what you mean when lots of people say that you can win in GT by bouncing of walls, I've heard that a lot as well from a few friends of mine who just don't like GT because it's hard for them. In some city tracks that is actually possible if you have a car that's over 100 BHP over the other cars, because hitting the walls almost puts you to 0 Km/h, so you'll need to have a really strong aceleration to compensate. The downside of that strategy is that city tracks aren't that common in the game, there's like 7 in the whole game (14 if you count their reverse counterparts) and in 3 of them (6 as well) if you hit a wall you get a 5 second penalty in which you are stuck at 50 Km/h (because they are a part of the Special Conditions championship races, the rally version of GT4) that's pretty much a lost race if you keep hitting the wall. Also since there is a total of 96 tracks in the game (48 not counting reverse version) the % of you actually pulling that Hit-On-The-Wall-and-win strategy in the actual races is very very slim.

But I concede as well that it's really annoying to see people using that strategy, that's why I have been wanting for damage to be in GT since GT3 A-Spec released on the PS2, but Yamauchi once said, when GT Concept 2001 Tokyo was released, that they have  been wanting to put car damage on GT since GT2, but they didn't have the permission of the car manufacters to do so, since they use GT as a showcase for their cars. Maybe it was just an excuse at that time, but now, since it seems that GT5 will have damage (I still want more confirmation than just a trailer), GT can finally be played as it was meant to be.

Of course that won't deter people to use simpler playing modes with Damage off and all the assists on and still exploit the same old strategy, but at least, they will be at a bigger disavantage than they already are when they have a showdown with the Vets of GT ;)