I know you don't think so, you actually have a bit of sanity left. I wrote that last part for the benefit of Taz and his ilk...I probably should have made that a little clearer lol.

Anyway, I would assume that PD plans on doing what T10 is doing in that it will be impossible for anybody using default settings, with all the assista on, to win a lot of races since they want you to tune your car. That to mee, is the most fun, dialing in your car for the specific tracks, and then running it as best you can. I spent hours shaving seconds off my lap time by doing this in NASCAR 1999 back in the day. 

@ironman

That's actually how I play every racing sim, I fine tune every part that I can tending to the specifications of the track and the car that i'm driving, trying to see how much can I improve my times.

The game that actually made me see that it was the way to trully improve your driving skills in games was Grand Prix 2. To me it's still one of the best racing games ever, it was made by the legendary Geoff Crammond of MicroProse. It was a F1 game, which had over 200 parts that you could tune so you could get the best out of your car, at first it was completely overwhelming, but with time, you actually see that it helps you improve ;).

For both GT and Forza, I think that both PD and Turn 10 will try to make their games as broader as they can, giving a chance for the less skilled to get the hang of the game, but allowing the actual racing vets to get the most out of the whole experience

It doesn't work yet, because there's no reason as to why given how on the raw simulation side there are better options on PC.

LOL at your PES fandom, see that's pure brand intertwining at best... playstation, gran turismo, pro evolution soccer... euro stuff.

Not saying FIFA is any better, but PES is a joke. I have a friend that buys it every single year and I've played all versions quite a bit... the game's pure facade, everything's baked (animations, ball physics[actually there are no ball physics in PES, ball behaviour is baked in], AI) and thus very prone to exploits.

Yea, Im out of this thread.........since Im such a big fanboy.
I guess sitting on the fence is only accepted here, cause having a popular opinion and backing it up with solid points is obviously not.

@Bitmap Frogs

This is getting a bit Off Topic, but I'm just curious, why do you say that there isn't any ball physics in PES? Since it's actually the most valued point in the entire series and it's what it gives it an edge over FIFA. Also I would like to know those exploits that you are naming, since i've been a PES player since the ISS days of the SNES, and there hasn't been that many exploits in the latest editions of PES, when compared to previous versions.

As I said, this is no time to discuss the suckiness of FIFA.

I will, however, say that FIFA feels robotic, unfinished, unpolished and basic, and it thinks it's so great with its "OFFICIAL LICENSES" and "AUTHENTIC HAIRSTYLES" and the like, while PES is far superior in terms of gameplay.

I will not comment on the Forza 3 vs. GT5 war, because I've never played a Forza OR a GT, and I hate racing sims, but I will say that GT5 will sell more, because it's a much bigger brand name, regardless of which game is better.

Also, PlayStation, Gran Turismo and PES are all Japanese, not European.

Seriously whats the point of this? Its as obvious as night and day which will sell more and you already know that, you're only trying to piss people off.

FIFA might feel like that, but PES is a borefest since everything's pre-baked so given enough play you can predict everything the AI and the ball will do which eventually leads to exploit-based play. That's not being far superior in terms of gameplay. It's being sucky, which is precisely what PES is, albeit for different reasons. But hey, if you are happy with doing 5 seconds of gameplay to get the ball to the other side of the field to exploit the AI and score a goal 5 seconds later as long as the coin drops the right way, the more power to you.

Gosh, learn2read. The heavy intertwining of these three brands is strong in Europe. Nowhere it's implied they are euro-developed games. But kudos to you, apparently you were trying sooo hard to find a flaw in the post you had to missread it to find one.

@Bitmap Frogs

I don't know if you blatantly ignored my post or if you didn't read it, but you strike me as the kind of person who doesn't know anything about PES. Tell me one thing, the few times you've played PES, was with a team like Barcelona, Real Madrid, M.U, with the A.I in the average difficulty, am I right?
Do yourself a favor, next time you play PES, do it on Top Player difficulty, on the Master League, with the Default Players in your team, those are players that average 75 on stats, which are far from good, using only manual pass (you do know there is a manual pass on PES do you not?). Then come back and tell me that the AI is predictable, and that you can score at every 5 seconds, hell, it will be a good experience for you if you aren't suffering a goal each 5 seconds.

I've played (and watched playing) a shitton of PES since one of my friends is an absolute fan that buys it every year and no matter what the difficulty level the game's utterly exploitable since everything's pre-baked.

And by the way, I preferred the older, slower PES to the newer seizure-inducing no middle-play editions.