Amen brother.

One thing I believe about this argument that hasn't been said.

I believe that if the ICO and SotC games weren't related to the Playstation brand, nobody would be making this argument.

That's not to say that everyone who does make the argument is a Playstation fanboy.

Instead, exclusive games for any console are always more highly touted.

Especially when they aren't tremendously popular.

On the contrary, hugely popular games are almost always backlashed against and hated. Even Zelda, to an extent, has an anti-fanbase. The Tom Green show, before it because famous, was very highly touted by the same critics who flamed it once it hit MTV.

That is a major reason SotC and ICO are bigtime. They are seen as less popular, not mainstream, and more "hip" games. This is augmented by the fact that the games are very dependent upon how they are interrupted by the user. People often see in the games what isn't actually there.

The team ICO games are also visually awe inspiring. However, I look down on games like SotC and Killzone 2, which base a large amount of their appeal on their visual acuity, instead of their narrative. If those games are only 90 on metacritic with such amazing graphics...what would be their quality if those games were on the DS? Could they maintain their atmosphere without technical prowess?

Also, the "Team ICO" games are not a series. They are two completely unrelated games, besides the developer.

Is the Portal series better than Zelda? It's not a damn series, so no.

Finally, ALL of Zelda's fame comes from its ability to maintain quality and longevity when other series fall to monotony. You CAN'T know if a series is as good as Zelda, until it has at least 3 games. Hell, it isn' even a series yet, for that matter. 3 games make a series.

@Zenfoldor:

That's asinine and willfully, truly, unbelievably fallacious. Wow. I have trouble believing this.

You're telling me that because the appeal of the games apparently went over your head, that all there is to them is their "cult" status (Shadow is believed to have hit 1.5 million worldwide) and their visual distinctiveness? Really?

No.

Here, let me quote Tycho from Penny Arcade. He talks a bit about Silent Hill 2, but it's the Shadow stuff that bears reading.

Oh come on Zen, that's a ridiculous argument.  How can you count being exclusives against SotC and Ico when the same is true of Zelda?  And Zelda's popularity counts against it?  Don't you think that it's popularity also gives it a leg up? 

And Ico and SotC weren't respected solely as as technical masterpieces, but also have a wonderful visual style. Don't Zelda games usually have some of the best visuals for whatever platform they're on?  That's like counting SMG's visuals against it.

Lastly, they most definitely are related by more than their developer.  They are both in the same mythological world and SotC is a prequel for Ico.  I am certain that the third game will somehow relate in this timeline as well. 

A couple of thinks Khuutra.

A. I asked you very politely NOT to argue with me, and indeed not to speak with me again. We don't get along. I asked you in a PM, so we could keep it private. Yet here you are, unable to prevent yourself from passive-agressively flaming me, by telling me that I'm just too dense to understand your artsy game. Whatever you said, doesn't matter. That is what you implied.

B. I'm  not always honest with people on these forums. Newsflash. In fact, I've read that little crappy Penny Arcade article you've posted as well. In fact, I understand very well ALL of the arguments for the game, and I respect it as a fairly good game. However great the content of the atmosphere, however, the narrative is unarguably nonexistant. Also, I'm not a very emotional guy. I think that SotC is "just a game" and while you might imagine that it is a legendary masterwork of art, as a game, I found it lacking.

In fact, I've sorta assisted Rocketpig write an article on this game, and those two opposing viewpoints(if i recall, ask him).

IN FACT, I just replayed the game.

Never claim that something "went over someones head" if for no other reason, it is unnecessarily offensive, and you shouldn't be unnecessarily offensive, should you? If something I wrote made you feel a certain way, just accept it. Sometimes it is by design, sometimes not. You can't control my opinions or my post. You can only control yours.

That said, in this case, what I've written here, I believe. I know that you believe opinions should be based on fact alone, and I've told you I disagree. I've told you that words like "valid" and "educated" are descriptives and not requirements. I don't care if you think giving an opinion based on feelings is unfair. I have every right to give it.

Finally, PLEASE don't respond to this with one of your "Wrong" pics, or some dodge post claiming that you can't believe what I wrote, or questioning my seriousness(and please refrain from using he phrase "really?" if at all possible)....in fact, it's best not to respond to this at all. I've learned that when arguing with you, your entire goal is to somehow trick me into getting myself banned, and I'm not gonna let you this time. I control my fate on this forum, not you.

Have a chill pill, check your hypertension, and leave me be sir.

As for your questions, Shadow certainly enjoys a cult status, obviously, and a huge overzealous fanbase amongst Sony fans. Also, the games visual distinctiveness is very much responsible for its "atmosphere" which is what that "feeling of evil" you are talking about is attributed to. Were it a DS game, somehow I doubt that sense of dread would have been as visceral. In fact, it would probably be just another actioneer with a gimmick. I give the game an 8/10. It lacks a narrative, unfortunately, and while you can read into it all your heart desires(as is obvious from its fans), you can also choose to ignore the artsy part of it, and judge it as a game. Just like Zelda, a much better game, with a worse, what, story?

You have a well presented argument sir. I respect it, but I respectfully disagree.

You like Tom Green?

lol, what if IRL I was him, sir? Would you not feel shame in your black humorless soul?

Nah, but I would be curious as to how anyone thought 'How Freddie Got Fingered' was a funny concept for a movie.

In all fairness though, I've never seen his show.