On topic - I think GT5 will beat Forza by 2.5 mill to 3.3 mill

Haha...gebx aka. House Gordon Half-Life MD...I wouldn't have done that if I were you.

I was referring to calling a mod out..not the sales figure. Late post

I agree here. Forza 3 is going to sell bundled or not.

Off Topic - The only reason Gran Turismo 3 sold better then Gran Turismo 4 is because it was heavily bundled. So if Forza 3 is bundled more then Forza 2 it can easily outsell it.

Killzone 2 was heavily bundled? I remember there being a couple bundles, but it definitely wasn't the only way to buy a PS3. If you're speaking from anecdotal evidence, that's fine, but remember that Poland covers a VERY small part of the market. That would be like me saying that since you can't buy a PS3 without Killzone 2 in the U.S. state of California, than you can't do it anymore (California has about as many people as Poland).

Why will Forza 3 outsell Forza 2? You could argue that it will be bundled a lot, and then I'd agree with you (Microsoft's bundles move a lot of software). Otherwise, it's probably not going to happen. The bundled sales from Forza 2 were artificial growth for the series, and the sales numbers won't be replicated in the next iteration. Gran Turismo 3 was bundled and saw huge growth the series. However, Gran Turismo 4 didn't have bundles (or at least not nearly as many bundles), and it saw a big drop in numbers over its predecessor. I imagine we're going to see the same thing with Forza 3.

So, you have a habit of making declarative statements that don't make any sense. How will Forza 3 end up on the same level of sales as Gran Turismo 5? 50% of sales were from casual gamers? Did you just pull that number out of nowhere? Gran Turismo 3 came out fairly early in the PS2's life span, when most PS2 owners were what you'd consider "core." Didn't stop the game from selling well at all. And you really think that it's because they had no other options for racing games? It wouldn't take long for you to find that Gran Turismo 3 had better reviews than any Forza game that has come out yet. And it's not like PS2 owners didn't have other options or didn't take them (just see the high sales of Need for Speed and the Simpsons racing games).

Even if the PS3 is lacking in casual gamers, so is the 360. Forza 3 is not going to sell very much, and even if it does, Gran Turismo 5 will sell on a level far above it. And then you mention the price comparison and wait period. While that is a good point, it's not going to change much. Many of the devoted Gran Turismo fans I would image are already PS3 owners, and GT5 will have such massive hype that even people who had already bought 360s and Forza will buy it. By the way, I didn't know that Forza 3 was already out. Good to know. By the way, did you really claim that it will only sell around 7 million? Let's entertain that idea. Let's say that the PS3 sells only 40 million consoles in its lifetime (even though it will do more). That means that the game will have less than a 20% attach rate on a relatively small userbase. Do you really think that's going to happen?

Put it this way, with a single Holiday as a bundle, Lego Indiana Jones has passed 3 million and Kung Fu Panda 2.92 million.

I could see 4-5 million with this years bundle and another 2 million+ with the re-release of Forza 3 2010 Edition + Holiday bundle 2.

GT5 will come within 1.5 million of that for better or worse (including bundles) either way, it won't count for much and i'd guess going into next gen (don't expec to see GT or Forza again until then) they will be roughly equal.

GT5 ~8Million

F3 ~3.5Million

Too bad I'm not a mod. I would have saved myself the pain of your reply.

This is in the wrong forum and you have a thread title that is just asking for flame wars. Make it again in the sales forum with a more neutral thread title.