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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Ninty hasn't created any new I.P's they can use in future generations, why

They haven't had to. Why would they? It's not as though a new cast makes a game any better.



Complexity is not depth. Machismo is not maturity. Obsession is not dedication. Tedium is not challenge. Support gaming: support the Wii.

Be the ultimate ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! Poisson Village welcomes new players.

What do I hate about modern gaming? I hate tedium replacing challenge, complexity replacing depth, and domination replacing entertainment. I hate the outsourcing of mechanics to physics textbooks, art direction to photocopiers, and story to cheap Hollywood screenwriters. I hate the confusion of obsession with dedication, style with substance, new with gimmicky, old with obsolete, new with evolutionary, and old with time-tested.
There is much to hate about modern gaming. That is why I support the Wii.

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Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Million said:
Majin-Tenshinhan said:
Million said:
Onyxmeth said:
Million said:
People really have that much confidence in Wii___ titles ? . And how is Nintendo going to differentiate themselves when Sony and Microsoft come out with their alternatives next gen ? ( possibly being the superior ones )

You really think it's that easy to get traction in the market? Just come out with superior motion controls and let it ride? If Sony and Microsoft think the same way you do(which I believe they do) they're going to be in for a rude awakening next gen the same they were this gen.

Of course everyone has confidence in Wii titles. They sell gangbusters. As Nintendo comes out with new platforms, peripherals, etc. they'll create new exciting Wii branded software to go with them that are purposely tailored to that particular peripheral. They don't need to keep repeating the same titles when they have so many fresh and original ideas. If any gen has shown Nintendo is the king of new IPs, it's this gen, over even the NES era.

Nintendogs
Brain Age
Wii Sports
Wii Fit
Wii Play

All 15+ million sellers per title. Can you remind me the last time Sony or Microsoft pulled off this feat? Oh right. Sony did...once. It took them until the third try on a franchise for it to happen. If you want to be worried, worry about Sony and Microsoft's new IPs. They're not selling so hot in comparison to Nintendo's.

Your getting trapped in the same mentality that got Sony's ass kicked , who said anything about coming out with superior motion controlls ? It's not neccaserily the advanced technology that wins market share , it's how that technology is applied . When Nintendo lost with the gamecube , histroical trends would have indicated they would just release a super powerful console to rival that of Sony and MS  , but they went against historical trends why do people think that Sony and Microsoft lack the capacity to do the same ?.

Alll Nintendo's I.P's owe their success to the innovation in technology you might aswell put a big (motion controll/touchscreen) because the software was only realy facilitiated by the technology , if you think about it it's only logical that Nintendo would release Wii Sports , Wii Fit etc the real genius is in the motion control/touch screen innovations. None of those games would have sold more than 500k with traditional controls.

Will Nintendo's innovation in technology secure them another generation , I think it's likely it won't for two reasons.

(1) Sony and MS would have had the opportunity to learn from their mistakes , underdogs are typicaly more hungry (hence more innovative, thoughtful in strategy) for success.

(2) Nintendo is more likely to rely on proven methods instead of taking the huge risk of a big innovation in technology (i'm not so sure that Ninendo had a 100% the Wii would be the market leader it is today , I think it was more a leap of faith than a calculated risk , there was no demographic they could test their hypothesis against.)

The gaming market is fast changing and dynamic , I don't think Nintendo acknowledged this fully instead they've created I.P's which all conform to the Wii___ concept , what if Sony or Microsoft realise a better way of applying the motion controlls , what if they come out with something superior . This will mean that the distinguishing selling point of the Nintendo brand will mean nothing , they also won't have any new I.P's to rely on , it'll be the same old Nitnendo that got their asses handed to them in the N64,GC era.

 

The only thing you're doing is rewording "superior motion controls" to "superior appliance of motion controls". Stop being so contradictory.

Also, even if we go your way and completely disregard the Wii series, the ONLY exclusive IP that can even be mentioned in the same breath as Nintendo's big hitters (Mario, Zelda, Pokémon) is Halo. That's probably not going to change. Nintendo already have their big IPs ... Sony and Microsoft were forced to create their IPs because Nintendo already had.

How is making the distinction between superior motion controls and the application of motion controls contradictory ? . People argue that all Sony and MS will do is come out with superior motion control technology , I argued in response that the advancement in technology isn't relevant , it's how the technology is applied that is .

 

And what leads you to believe they'll apply the technology better anyway? Fact of the matter, Gamecube and Xbox were both superior to the PS2 in pretty much every way. But people knew PlayStation. While they also knew Microsoft and Nintendo, they did not know Gamecube or Xbox. People know Wii. People love Do the math.

Nothing leads me to believe that it is guaranteed but alot of things lead me to believe it is probable.

(1) They are the underdogs

(2) Nintendo has a established a new market.

(3) They desire that market and will work towards obtaining it.

(4) They have resources and will make use of them to achieving (3).


The PS2's success where for different reasons the Wii , the success of the PS2 follows closely from the PS1's and the huge software support Sony was able to aqcuire in that period. The Wii lends pretty much all it's success to the innovation it's technology which enabled to attack that new demographic. People knew Playstation because it offered a unique selling point : it's libary . People know the Wii because it offers a unique selling point : it's libary based of the innovation in the Wii. People only come to know the console when it has something worth offering , not at any point before that , people will soon forget the Wii if a better alternative is released just as they did the PS2.




Million said:

Nothing leads me to believe that it is guaranteed but alot of things lead me to believe it is probable.

(1) They are the underdogs

(2) Nintendo has a established a new market.

(3) They desire that market and will work towards obtaining it.

(4) They have resources and will make use of them to achieving (3).


The PS2's success where for different reasons the Wii , the success of the PS2 follows closely from the PS1's and the huge software support Sony was able to aqcuire in that period. The Wii lends pretty much all it's success to the innovation it's technology which enabled to attack that new demographic. People knew Playstation because it offered a unique selling point : it's libary . People know the Wii because it offers a unique selling point : it's libary based of the innovation in the Wii. People only come to know the console when it has something worth offering , not at any point before that , people will soon forget the Wii if a better alternative is released just as they did the PS2.


I look at things a little differently ...

Throughout the entire previous generation, Sony and Microsoft were growing more and more focused on targeting the "Hardcore" demographic under the assumption that the more "Hardcore" a system becomes the more popular it will be. As a result of this, they largely ignored and took for granted the broader demographic of gamers. Nintendo’s release of the Wii was designed to target these gamers.

Nintendo's success was quick and easy because there was almost no fight for these gamers from Sony or Microsoft ... Stealing these gamers away from Nintendo is (at this point in time) about as easy as stealing the "Hardcore" gamers away from Sony and Microsoft. The gamers know the brand are happy with the brand and the company who controls their demographic is not going to give up an inch without a fight.



HappySqurriel said:
Million said:

Nothing leads me to believe that it is guaranteed but alot of things lead me to believe it is probable.

(1) They are the underdogs

(2) Nintendo has a established a new market.

(3) They desire that market and will work towards obtaining it.

(4) They have resources and will make use of them to achieving (3).


The PS2's success where for different reasons the Wii , the success of the PS2 follows closely from the PS1's and the huge software support Sony was able to aqcuire in that period. The Wii lends pretty much all it's success to the innovation it's technology which enabled to attack that new demographic. People knew Playstation because it offered a unique selling point : it's libary . People know the Wii because it offers a unique selling point : it's libary based of the innovation in the Wii. People only come to know the console when it has something worth offering , not at any point before that , people will soon forget the Wii if a better alternative is released just as they did the PS2.


I look at things a little differently ...

Throughout the entire previous generation, Sony and Microsoft were growing more and more focused on targeting the "Hardcore" demographic under the assumption that the more "Hardcore" a system becomes the more popular it will be. As a result of this, they largely ignored and took for granted the broader demographic of gamers. Nintendo’s release of the Wii was designed to target these gamers.

Nintendo's success was quick and easy because there was almost no fight for these gamers from Sony or Microsoft ... Stealing these gamers away from Nintendo is (at this point in time) about as easy as stealing the "Hardcore" gamers away from Sony and Microsoft. The gamers know the brand are happy with the brand and the company who controls their demographic is not going to give up an inch without a fight.

I'm with Happy Squrriel's explanation. The former markerleader Sony sabotaged its own market by focussing more on a niche. And Microsoft followed them  in an foolish attempt to cut them off.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

1. Nintendo doesn't have to since they already have a lot of IPs in the last 20 years.

2. Nintendo has enough creative talent to create new IPs tailored for their new console and handheld

One thing I also don't understand is that people would bitch at Nintendo make sequels to established IPs and at the same time bitch at Nintendo not making any new IPs that they can create games for in the next gen and beyond.



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

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Stefan.De.Machtige said:
HappySqurriel said:
Million said:

Nothing leads me to believe that it is guaranteed but alot of things lead me to believe it is probable.

(1) They are the underdogs

(2) Nintendo has a established a new market.

(3) They desire that market and will work towards obtaining it.

(4) They have resources and will make use of them to achieving (3).


The PS2's success where for different reasons the Wii , the success of the PS2 follows closely from the PS1's and the huge software support Sony was able to aqcuire in that period. The Wii lends pretty much all it's success to the innovation it's technology which enabled to attack that new demographic. People knew Playstation because it offered a unique selling point : it's libary . People know the Wii because it offers a unique selling point : it's libary based of the innovation in the Wii. People only come to know the console when it has something worth offering , not at any point before that , people will soon forget the Wii if a better alternative is released just as they did the PS2.


I look at things a little differently ...

Throughout the entire previous generation, Sony and Microsoft were growing more and more focused on targeting the "Hardcore" demographic under the assumption that the more "Hardcore" a system becomes the more popular it will be. As a result of this, they largely ignored and took for granted the broader demographic of gamers. Nintendo’s release of the Wii was designed to target these gamers.

Nintendo's success was quick and easy because there was almost no fight for these gamers from Sony or Microsoft ... Stealing these gamers away from Nintendo is (at this point in time) about as easy as stealing the "Hardcore" gamers away from Sony and Microsoft. The gamers know the brand are happy with the brand and the company who controls their demographic is not going to give up an inch without a fight.

I'm with Happy Squrriel's explanation. The former markerleader Sony sabotaged its own market by focussing more on a niche. And Microsoft followed them  in an foolish attempt to cut them off.

I don't think my point disagrees with yours , infact I think it strengthens my argument . The fact that Nintnedo didn't have to battle for their new found demographic means that their future hold over that demographic is surrounded in mystery , what I think will is happen is that Sony and Microsoft will revise their strategies and attack that new demographic in a way their feeble attempts (Natal and Sony motion controller) have been unable too , this gen is really to late for a drastic change , the demographics have been set in stone.

I guess it can be argued both ways , Nintendo has captured a new market and no one really knows how they are going to play it from here , they could do more of the same with the Wii 2 or they could radicaly innovate their control scheme again (a risky move but one that is guaranteed to profit huge if the market responds well ) . Regardless of what Nintendo does  I don't think they'll be able to have the lead they had last time ,like you said Nintendo didn't have to fight for this new market . But now the markets been established and is experiencing expotential growth, both Microsoft and Sony are in on it now.




Million said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

I'm with Happy Squrriel's explanation. The former markerleader Sony sabotaged its own market by focussing more on a niche. And Microsoft followed them  in an foolish attempt to cut them off.

I don't think my point disagrees with yours , infact I think it strengthens my argument . The fact that Nintnedo didn't have to battle for their new found demographic means that their future hold over that demographic is surrounded in mystery , what I think will is happen is that Sony and Microsoft will revise their strategies and attack that new demographic in a way their feeble attempts (Natal and Sony motion controller) have been unable too , this gen is really to late for a drastic change , the demographics have been set in stone.

I guess it can be argued both ways , Nintendo has captured a new market and no one really knows how they are going to play it from here , they could do more of the same with the Wii 2 or they could radicaly innovate their control scheme again (a risky move but one that is guaranteed to profit huge if the market responds well ) . Regardless of what Nintendo does  I don't think they'll be able to have the lead they had last time ,like you said Nintendo didn't have to fight for this new market . But now the markets been established and is experiencing expotential growth, both Microsoft and Sony are in on it now.

The whole point of Nintendo's strategy is that they acquire markets that aren't being catered to. That's why it's the Blue Ocean Strategy. You're talking about fighting over this audience, which is the red ocean(blood in the water attracting the sharks), and is exactly what Nintendo purposely got themselves out of. Microsoft and Sony I feel only have the capacity to try and fight over the audience Nintendo has acquired. I don't think they can utilize the mentality Nintendo has to seek out new markets unattended to. I derive this from their PR statements and executive interviews, which have never shown an inkling that either company really gets it. Iwata was talking about market expansion before the Wii hit. It wasn't some roll the dice thing. They are now talking about how to acquire new markets. He spoke about it candidly during the the E3 conference. At the same time, Sony and Microsoft showed us silly tech demos like paint splashing minigames and shooting cartoon guns around a room full of toys. You tell me who looks more poised to expand the market again.

If Sony and Microsoft manage to tap into Nintendo's current expanded audience, I believe Nintendo will have moved into catering to a much larger group of formely disgruntled or non-gamers. They will still put an effort into their old strategy, same as how we still get our upstream games like Mario RPG, Fire Emblem and Disaster Day of Crisis to give this traditionalist audience what they want also. Nintendo does fight in the red ocean, and puts up a decent effort, but the eyes are always on the real prize. Sony and Microsoft are basically now trying to go down the path Nintendo laid out, and as long as they do that, they'll never get further than Nintendo does.



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Onyxmeth said:
Million said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
 

I'm with Happy Squrriel's explanation. The former markerleader Sony sabotaged its own market by focussing more on a niche. And Microsoft followed them  in an foolish attempt to cut them off.

I don't think my point disagrees with yours , infact I think it strengthens my argument . The fact that Nintnedo didn't have to battle for their new found demographic means that their future hold over that demographic is surrounded in mystery , what I think will is happen is that Sony and Microsoft will revise their strategies and attack that new demographic in a way their feeble attempts (Natal and Sony motion controller) have been unable too , this gen is really to late for a drastic change , the demographics have been set in stone.

I guess it can be argued both ways , Nintendo has captured a new market and no one really knows how they are going to play it from here , they could do more of the same with the Wii 2 or they could radicaly innovate their control scheme again (a risky move but one that is guaranteed to profit huge if the market responds well ) . Regardless of what Nintendo does  I don't think they'll be able to have the lead they had last time ,like you said Nintendo didn't have to fight for this new market . But now the markets been established and is experiencing expotential growth, both Microsoft and Sony are in on it now.

The whole point of Nintendo's strategy is that they acquire markets that aren't being catered to. That's why it's the Blue Ocean Strategy. You're talking about fighting over this audience, which is the red ocean(blood in the water attracting the sharks), and is exactly what Nintendo purposely got themselves out of. Microsoft and Sony I feel only have the capacity to try and fight over the audience Nintendo has acquired. I don't think they can utilize the mentality Nintendo has to seek out new markets unattended to. I derive this from their PR statements and executive interviews, which have never shown an inkling that either company really gets it. Iwata was talking about market expansion before the Wii hit. It wasn't some roll the dice thing. They are now talking about how to acquire new markets. He spoke about it candidly during the the E3 conference. At the same time, Sony and Microsoft showed us silly tech demos like paint splashing minigames and shooting cartoon guns around a room full of toys. You tell me who looks more poised to expand the market again.

If Sony and Microsoft manage to tap into Nintendo's current expanded audience, I believe Nintendo will have moved into catering to a much larger group of formely disgruntled or non-gamers. They will still put an effort into their old strategy, same as how we still get our upstream games like Mario RPG, Fire Emblem and Disaster Day of Crisis to give this traditionalist audience what they want also. Nintendo does fight in the red ocean, and puts up a decent effort, but the eyes are always on the real prize. Sony and Microsoft are basically now trying to go down the path Nintendo laid out, and as long as they do that, they'll never get further than Nintendo does.

 

Let's not underestimate Sony and Microsoft . I appreciate what your saying with the blue-ocean strategy but that principle could apply to any business of any size , I don't think that it is exclusive to Nintendo.  Now that the Wii is in 1st place you think that Sony and MS is unable to discover and attain new markets in the same way Nintendo has , well if...

(A) Sony hadn't have won the last two generations.

(B) This wasn't Microsofts second generation.

Then you might have had a point . I'll admit I was only thinking about the new demoghraphic that Nintendo created but the fact that I didn't consider demographics beyond this isn't important , this is considerations that employees at Microsoft and Sony are paid to make . The thing is , gaming has changed for good it isn't following historicaly trends as closley as it was in previous generations , I don't know why you can expect the same kind of blue-ocean mentality from Nintendo next gen but completley disregard Sony's and Microsofts ability to do the same.

But this is understandable , people usualy can't envision market underdogs achieving market dominance 5-10 years in the future , that's why the value of Nintendo is significantly much more than it was 5 years ago , that is why Sony lost marketshare wise this generation. And that is exactly why I have every confidence that Sony and Microsoft will discover and capitalise any on new opportunities.

Another point I want to make is does the blue ocean strategy make considerations for the the size of new markets. Example

[___TRADITIONAL_MARKET___][_______________WII MARKET__________][__NEW MARKET__]


As you can see the Wii Market is larger than the hardcore market and fortunatley for Ninendo the targeted the "Wii Market" arguably at the risk of loosing significance in the traditional market . If Nintendo were to attack the "NEW MARKET" then they may risk loosing significance in both the TRADITIONAL MARKET and the Wii MARKET , but you see the size of the NEW MARKET is lesser than that of the other two . My point is Microsoft and Sony may not neccaserily need to capture new markets , if Nintendo lost sigificance in either one of the existing markets then they risk loosing significance even when the discover a new demographic

NEW MARKET doesn't neccaserily mean more profit unless your able to retain existing markets , but the more markets you compete in the more the specs of your device have to conform to the needs of all markets , the less capable the device is at apealing massivley to all markets. This is already evident in the Wii , the traditional developers don't want anything to do with it , we're in a situation where the underdogs in the market are receving the bulk of 3rd party budgets /quality.

I think there's alot of question marks , everyone seems to think next gen will be pretty much the same (I think this is naive) . What I am certain of is that Sony (if they decide to compete) and Microsoft will not simply release the PS4 and XBOX 720 , we're going to see entirely different beasts.




Million said:

 

Let's not underestimate Sony and Microsoft . I appreciate what your saying with the blue-ocean strategy but that principle could apply to any business of any size , I don't think that it is exclusive to Nintendo.  Now that the Wii is in 1st place you think that Sony and MS is unable to discover and attain new markets in the same way Nintendo has , well if...

(A) Sony hadn't have won the last two generations.

(B) This wasn't Microsofts second generation.

Then you might have had a point . I'll admit I was only thinking about the new demoghraphic that Nintendo created but the fact that I didn't consider demographics beyond this isn't important , this is considerations that employees at Microsoft and Sony are paid to make . The thing is , gaming has changed for good it isn't following historicaly trends as closley as it was in previous generations , I don't know why you can expect the same kind of blue-ocean mentality from Nintendo next gen but completley disregard Sony's and Microsofts ability to do the same.

But this is understandable , people usualy can't envision market underdogs achieving market dominance 5-10 years in the future , that's why the value of Nintendo is significantly much more than it was 5 years ago , that is why Sony lost marketshare wise this generation. And that is exactly why I have every confidence that Sony and Microsoft will discover and capitalise any on new opportunities.

Another point I want to make is does the blue ocean strategy make considerations for the the size of new markets. Example

[___TRADITIONAL_MARKET___][_______________WII MARKET__________][__NEW MARKET__]


As you can see the Wii Market is larger than the hardcore market and fortunatley for Ninendo the targeted the "Wii Market" arguably at the risk of loosing significance in the traditional market . If Nintendo were to attack the "NEW MARKET" then they may risk loosing significance in both the TRADITIONAL MARKET and the Wii MARKET , but you see the size of the NEW MARKET is lesser than that of the other two . My point is Microsoft and Sony may not neccaserily need to capture new markets , if Nintendo lost sigificance in either one of the existing markets then they risk loosing significance even when the discover a new demographic

NEW MARKET doesn't neccaserily mean more profit unless your able to retain existing markets , but the more markets you compete in the more the specs of your device have to conform to the needs of all markets , the less capable the device is at apealing massivley to all markets. This is already evident in the Wii , the traditional developers don't want anything to do with it , we're in a situation where the underdogs in the market are receving the bulk of 3rd party budgets /quality.

I think there's alot of question marks , everyone seems to think next gen will be pretty much the same (I think this is naive) . What I am certain of is that Sony (if they decide to compete) and Microsoft will not simply release the PS4 and XBOX 720 , we're going to see entirely different beasts.

I'm going to comment on the main portion of your argument. It's not that Sony or Microsoft can't expand the market. I'm sure if the right executives were working for them, and the right talent was pushing out exciting ideas, they surely could. I'm basing this on their PR statements, their interviews, etc. They just don't say "market expansion". They all read to me "Hey look! We don't get it!". Natal and dildo wand are just another "I don't get it" products, as I believe you said yourself earlier in different words. If I see their executives speaking the way Iwata was back in 2004, which laid out Nintendo's future mentality in advance, then I will change my opinion of them.

So no I can't predict the future. I can only look at trends and make my best guesses based on them. There is no current trend in my eyes that shows Sony or Microsoft in the midst of understanding the Blue Ocean strategy and possibly capitalizing on it. Their new projects, and the silly demos that went along with them, screamed "me too", and you know it. If one or the both of them are just being foolish and really have grander plans going on behind the scenes then good for them. I don't do empty speculation, so without any forthcoming warning from them, I'd rather not wager at the moment that the tide is going to turn. If in fact I get wind of some rumblings from one of the HD camps that they're beginning to get it, I'll be the first to change my tune and say "watch out for this one".



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



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