Brand recognition and quality is one of the big points that has Nintendo selling a lot of first-party software. You'd be surprised not to find a lot of people who don't know who Mario is, for example.
It's quite simple. There are more kids with more time to spend playing games. Like it or not when it comes to perception Nintendo is seen to cater to kids more often than PS360. And frankly SONY/MS are perfectly happy with their image of making games for the teen-young adult crowd. Whereas Nintendo seems happy to be thought of to cater to the young/old crowd.
A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
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| dsister44 said: why would you buy your kids a $400 ps3 to play kids games? when you can get a wii and a blu-ray player for less. anyway kids don't buy as many games as adults. |
each kid individually may yes buy less games than the hardcore gamer.
but the success of the Wii and the PS2 are based on millions upon millions of kids and not the few million hardcore. There is a topic on news showing the top selling games of the last ten years, and it shows PS2 has roughly 1.5 billion games sold in that time.
And what there is probably at most 250 million of those sales are hardcore games. (out of that list the ps2 toals 100 million) and that means the rest of the games all sold less than 5 million a piece as well. The other 1.25 billion are the casual shit game you guys don't like that the million of kids are buying.
So don't tell me that kids games are worth it. Sure they may not sell the 5 million (but only 10 games have ever sold more than 5 million on each console gen anyway). but the market is insane for casual gamers. I don't understnad how sony did not realize this. shouldn they have been looking where they are getting this shit on of cash from other developers from.
Soleron said:
Super Mario Kart was 1992. Find a racer that tried to be non-realistic before 1992. Nintendogs wasn't an innovation; its marketing was. The concepts weren't new but put together by Nintendo their appeal was magnified. Yes, 2006 on has been the least innovative period for Nintendo in their history. But I think this is because games from then were developed as sequels to GC games. The motion controls were an afterthought in all of those, no matter how well done. The generation of games that were designed from day one for the Wii Remote will be very innovative and in the next-gen MS and Sony consoles with motion controls they will borrow heavily from the things Nintendo innovate in their games from now to then. Name one new thing Sony has done this gen (or indeed any gen). They take the successes of third-party games (Resistance and Killzone ripped off every PC and console FPS from Halo onwards; GT5 doesn't represent anything new over previous realistic racers like Need for Speed and Burnout; Uncharted takes the gameplay of Tomb Raider and mixes it with the wider adventure genre stereotypes.) and reorganise them under different names with better graphics. The only truly innovative thing I have seen from Sony is LBP, but even within that is there anything different between it and the basic gameplay of SMB in 1986?
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Nice try to make 4 or so of Sony's I.P's look like rehashes of something already made but even that failed . What about Heavenly sword ,Warhawk , Eye of judgement, Infamous , War Devil , Folklore , Motorstorm and the many other new I.P's Sony brought into this gen alone.Killzone & Resistance rip off's of PC shooters ?..... desperate much ? .
In total ....
I count at least 30 titles released under the pokemon name.
there's at least 100 titles under the mario name.
14 titles under the Zelda name.
10 titles under the Metroid Prime name.
this gen...
Metroid Prime Hunters DS
Metroid Prime Corruption Wii
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness
Nitnendo clearly have a history of re-using franchises for their console iterations , clearly more so any other hardware maker in history , this shows an unwillingness to be completley creative and try entirely new things , it's a very risk concious strategy.
There's nothing new about the motion technology inside the Wii , I could argue they "ripped that off from who ever invented it" , but all of us know that innovation is not about making something totaly new , innovation is the application of exisiting ideas in a different way .
You could argue that Sony haven't done anything new , but using that standard it's certain that neither have Ninty .
Its not necessarily all SONY or MS who is to blame for the lack of casual on the HD consoles. Or the expense of the PS360. Developers are more to blame. They are the ones who want to develop top end graphic games. They are the ones who want more complicated, mature games. As a programmer myself there would be little interest I would ever have to making the types of games found on the wii, whereas I would sell my first unborn to work on many of the development teams who make games from PS360.
A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.
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NinjaKido said:
Nitnendo clearly have a history of re-using franchises for their console iterations , clearly more so any other hardware maker in history , this shows an unwillingness to be completley creative and try entirely new things , it's a very risk concious strategy. There's nothing new about the motion technology inside the Wii , I could argue they "ripped that off from who ever invented it" , but all of us know that innovation is not about making something totaly new , innovation is the application of exisiting ideas in a different way .
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"Yes, 2006 on has been the least innovative period for Nintendo in their history."
The answer to your reply is in the first statement of the paragraph you bolded. Every single one of those titles you used to illustrate your point has been released since 2006. And I agree that since then Nintendo has just done rehashes. And Nintendo was wrong to do it. I hate the Pokemon Ranger series, I hate Metroid Prime Hunters, I hate Mario Super Sluggers, I hate Mario & Luigi RPG - in short, I too hate all of the spinoffs.
The person I quoted claimed that Sony had innovated in small ways and I challenged him to prove that. I see not one single new concept or application from Sony since the PS3 launch except in LBP which I conceded.
Soleron said:
Super Mario Kart was 1992. Find a racer that tried to be non-realistic before 1992. Nintendogs wasn't an innovation; its marketing was. The concepts weren't new but put together by Nintendo their appeal was magnified. Yes, 2006 on has been the least innovative period for Nintendo in their history. But I think this is because games from then were developed as sequels to GC games. The motion controls were an afterthought in all of those, no matter how well done. The generation of games that were designed from day one for the Wii Remote will be very innovative and in the next-gen MS and Sony consoles with motion controls they will borrow heavily from the things Nintendo innovate in their games from now to then. Name one new thing Sony has done this gen (or indeed any gen). They take the successes of third-party games (Resistance and Killzone ripped off every PC and console FPS from Halo onwards; GT5 doesn't represent anything new over previous realistic racers like Need for Speed and Burnout; Uncharted takes the gameplay of Tomb Raider and mixes it with the wider adventure genre stereotypes.) and reorganise them under different names with better graphics. The only truly innovative thing I have seen from Sony is LBP, but even within that is there anything different between it and the basic gameplay of SMB in 1986?
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Mario Kart was really 1992? OK, that's earlier then I thought, I'm going to have to look through my old collection of Amstrad games now to find a suitable alternative :P
And I agree, the marketing for Nintendogs was innovative, but I was pointing out the game had been done before and in alternative forms.
We're a little over 2 yrs into the Wii life-cycle and I'm a bit disappointed with what Nintendo hasn't done with the Wii remote. I see what you're saying, and I really hope that the new Zelda and Starfox (I need Starfox dammit!) will make innovative use of the controller but they really should have done more with it beyond what they've acheived so far. They seem to be concentrating on new hardware/controllers though (Wii fit, motion plus). I have high expectations of Nintendo and so far they haven't met it. I hope you're right and that changes soon.
You seem to think I was making some sort of massive statement that Sony are the new innovators of the industry... which they're not. But, they have added small and MINOR additions to they're games. Resistance 2 is one of the first games to include a seperate 8 player co-op. I prefer co-op to all out deathmatch etc. and find R2 (and L4D (PC)) the games I play most online now. MAG can supposedly have 256 people online, R2 already has 60. Killzone2 adds a Gears-style cover system to a first-person perspective and makes it works. LBP adds multiplayer and community to a platformer with a level creation kit that hasn't really been done on the same level on consoles... and I don't even like the game that much. And finally... they made Home, I find it useless, but some people are making use of it and is itself a community... thing, lol. All small additions, none of which are trend setting as I said. Strangely, they're least innovative franchise is also the biggest seller: GT.
Maybe it's to do with the level of expectation... I expect innovation from Nintendo, not so much from Sony.
Scoobes said:
Mario Kart was really 1992? OK, that's earlier then I thought, I'm going to have to look through my old collection of Amstrad games now to find a suitable alternative :P And I agree, the marketing for Nintendogs was innovative, but I was pointing out the game had been done before and in alternative forms. Yes; I agree. We're a little over 2 yrs into the Wii life-cycle and I'm a bit disappointed with what Nintendo hasn't done with the Wii remote. I see what you're saying, and I really hope that the new Zelda and Starfox (I need Starfox dammit!) will make innovative use of the controller but they really should have done more with it beyond what they've acheived so far. They seem to be concentrating on new hardware/controllers though (Wii fit, motion plus). I have high expectations of Nintendo and so far they haven't met it. I hope you're right and that changes soon. That's my hope too. They need to announce something along those lines - anything! - at E3 2009 or else they won't be doing that. If you look at the Wii Aeroplane demo at the E3 before the launch, just applying that to Starfox and not changing anything else would be a huge step forward... You seem to think I was making some sort of massive statement that Sony are the new innovators of the industry... which they're not. But, they have added small and MINOR additions to they're games. Resistance 2 is one of the first games to include a seperate 8 player co-op. I prefer co-op to all out deathmatch etc. and find R2 (and L4D (PC)) the games I play most online now. MAG can supposedly have 256 people online, R2 already has 60. Killzone2 adds a Gears-style cover system to a first-person perspective and makes it works. LBP adds multiplayer and community to a platformer with a level creation kit that hasn't really been done on the same level on consoles... and I don't even like the game that much. And finally... they made Home, I find it useless, but some people are making use of it and is itself a community... thing, lol. All small additions, none of which are trend setting as I said. Strangely, they're least innovative franchise is also the biggest seller: GT. OK. All of those innovations are technology based (more players, more levels, more graphics...) which Sony does better than Nintendo I admit, but Nintendo is (or rather was) better at gameplay innovations. Maybe it's to do with the level of expectation... I expect innovation from Nintendo, not so much from Sony. Yes. |
well it does seem like there has been a drought since last major 1st party core nintendo game came out.
but kind of interested in how the remakes are gonna change the future games. You know like pikman and stuff. its almost like Nintendo is getting paid to do a field test. they get to hear from reviewers and customers how the controls worked for that type of game and what was good/bad or would have been great and so on.
its thrown on a great game already so its not like were getting screwed, but they get to get input while selling a game for profit. And this will help them to know what changes to make a much better perfect control for say pikman 3, or fire emblem 11. or other games that can be controlled similarily
Soleron said:
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Yes, but I don't think you can discount innovation just because it's technology based. Also, the level editor on LBP is innovative not because of the technology, as they could have done it on PS2 or Wii for that matter, but that they made it possible with the limitations of a console controller. It probably would have been easier on Wii as at least then you have a pointing device similar to the mouse on a PC.
Wii Aeroplane demo you say? Google I must...
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