"For the record, you totally saw the other thread, you freaking posted in it at "6:15".

You posted the link to the petition. Then at "6:21" you made this thread. I don't know why, I don't really care. But you suck at lying."-BenKenobi

QFT.  I was just about to post those details when you locked the thread.  Sneaky cheeky monkey, huh.  Hands in the cookie jar, crumbs on his face, cookie in his mouth..."I didn't see the other thread"....lol.

 All I have to say (man this guy has me typing all proper...) is that you made a good point. Its 12:43 here in Texas and I don't think I can make a complicated and well written comeback without making a fool of myself so ill make this simple. To start off ill say this again. You have a good point, thier team isn't as responsible as they once where "pointing fingers and such"... I can sympathize because its thier first game on the PS3, the coding is extreamely difficult ( fanboys say what you want) , not to mention all the hype that went into Lair and how its going to be PS3's AAA title. They didn't get it right on the controls, but whos to say they wont get it next time? Now that thier cred is in the gutter, publishers may think twice about funding Factors 5's games. Why not give them a chance getting thier legs on a nintendo console? With all the shovelware coming out nowadays ( Ninjabreadman oh god, or Billy the Wizard) some original 3rd party content would be nice.  I take that back about you being a "frekin retard" lol but im not reliving no "glory days of the past" as if any existed for the gamecube then.  Regardless, I stand next to my opinion. And anyway I would rather have them give a attempt at making a Wii game than perfecting a PS3 one (cuz i dont have a ps3 ). 

You should give 3rd party developers more trust with getting the controls right and trust them not to slap on "waggle". Medal of Honor 2 Heroes for the Wii is awesome, and its being made by a team who specfied on the PSP. It has the graphics, the online (32 player), and the controls that rival MP3. It shouldn't be surprising that 3rd party developers are starting to get it, and really pushing what the Wii could do.

 Well Truce Claudev250

 im calling it a night

No thanks, when I try better motion controls from your games(Factor 5) I will call you, close the door please, and one more think, If you see Rare talking about DK country 4, tell them I'm not interested in their products unless Banjo 3 ends being a great game. Take care.

After what they done to Lair I am glad Sony are not funding anymore projects with them. Nintendo can have them as we all know they are just great with motion controls...

They were probably pressured into using the motion control for PS3... And also they were probably rushed through the development process, atleast for the time it should have taken to learn a whole new system and CPU architecture...

But still, Factor 5 isn't the same Factor 5 that made Rogue Squadron 2: Rogue Leader....  Rogue 3 sucked because of the dumb on-foot levels... lol.

I guess I see Factor 5 as what Rareware became after it left Nintendo. All the awesome Factor 5 people probably quit/work for Nintendo directly now. Who knows...

It's just a shame to go from a AAA game on the gamecube (Rogue 2), to a C+ title on the gamecube (Rogue 3) to a F- title on the PS3 (Lair)...

I feel like Rogue 2 is enough to keep me happy Star-wars flying-around wise for a few years anyway, so I could go either way on Factor 5. The more games the merrier, I guess. But I just have the feeling that Nintendo will look at Lair and say, "Uhhh... blech"

They're welcome to make one.

I don't have to buy it if it looks like crap :P

signed if they can do the new standard in wii graphics I am all in.

I can't remember playing any Factor5 game, so I don't really care. But I gotta admit that yesterday I started to feel a little sorry for Julian Eggebrecht & his team (I was a reader of German "Video Games" magazine around 1990, when J E was one of the authors).

A lot of Lair reviewers actually lamented why the game isn't controlled by dual analog sticks - I guess they wouldn't give ANY motion controlled game a chance. Yes, I know, half of the reviews stated explicitly that they don't hate motion controls in general, but the other half... And the much ridiculed "reviewers guide" emerged as a very lovingly made manual. Badly timed, admittedly.

Whatever, I don't care for Lair or Star Wars, and he made a lot of arrogant PR statements beforehand, so maybe it's his own fault. And Lair's controls DO seem to be f***ked up. It's just that many Sony reviewers wouldn't accept any motion controlled PS3 game (let alone ANY Wii game, but that's a different story).

... sorry for the Offtopic blabber.

So, wasn't Factor5 supposed to be a "second party" Sony developer? Thought I read that somewhere.

 Very well put, Isnt off topic at all. 

Honestly, if they had given gamers the option to play with dual analog instead of only the sixaxis, im sure the game would have scored higher. Maybe thats the approach they'll go with thier next Wii game. Have IR aiming with motion controls, IR aiming with analog, or all classic (plug in a gamecube or clasic remote). Giving gamers more options and at least taking some blame for thier mistakes is a good way to regain thier cred/dignity, or whats left of it.

Anyway, im just surprised the petition has almost 600 sigs in only 2 days.

It's easy to feel sorry for some developers...they're only human I suppose.

They're not rookies though, they've made great games. So pulling out Rebel Strike and Lair doesn't deserve much pity...we know they can do better...at least the Factor 5 of the past could.