kowenicki said: @BTFeather I dont know where to begin with that post... Women can and should be able to dress how they like... what has that got to do with rape? Secondly, in your last paragraph are you saying that legalised prostitution would stop rape? If so, that is just silly and somewhat deluded.

 

      So are you saying that when women dress provocativey, then they are so naive that they think there's a 100% chance that they will attract no unwanted attention at all for doing so?  Are you saying that Rupert Murdoch doesn't expect to attract more viewers to his programs by putting on Megyn Kelly in low cut dresses that also reveal quite a bit of her legs than he would by putting some frumpy heavy-set girl that works at Costco on as his news reader?

     It probably wouldn't cut down on date rape or do much about the pedophiles that are heavily wired into abducting and raping and murdering girls.  But there is a certain type of individual that legalized, subsidized, affordable and quality prostitution would influence away from committing these types of crimes.

@kowenicki: So you would let your kid killed rather than raped? And no, I don't accept raping at any form. I just wonder how so many people here can kill person in game without hesitation but at the same time demand banning of rape game. Killing is a lot worse crime. When you kill a person you take the most precious thing from human. Life itself. You can not help dead person but you can help raped person.

kowenicki said: @BTF Have you heard yourself.... so its the womans fault for being naive if she dresses provocatively and is then raped? And of course tv presenters and the like dress attractively to get more viewers.... whats wrong with that? You really have got things the wrong way round there my friend. Oh and on the prostitution thing... I would agree with you there... legalise it in a controleld way. But that wont stop rape or sexually aggrevated murder or kidnap in an way.

 

You say, "so its the woman's fault for being naive if she dresses provocatively and is then raped?"

Well, the question would then be how naive is she if she knows how to dress provocatively?  Now, I know a woman can go to a clothing store and innocently just buy the newest fashions which are probably going to be revealing and even a bit more revealing than the prior year's fashionable clothes.  And, it is not her fault if some person goes out and rapes her.  But there is a tempation in the mind of the rapist that wouldn't be there in other ways if he hadn't seen her dressed in provocative clothes.

Let me give an example, now a person goes in a clothing store at a mall and there are a lot of manniquins in rather revealing clothes or even in bikinis.  Now, if you look at these mannequins, the people in the store will start looking at you on their security cameras for doing so.

So, it is a situaution, you're a guy and you weren't thinking about sex when you walk in the store on your way to the other stores in the mall, but suddenly you notice these mannequins seemingly molded off the bodies of supermodels and your biological drives are telling you to look at them but you know if you do their going to notice you on the security cameras and label you a perv.

It's like there he goes looking at our sexy mannequins again, he's a real perv.  There's some kind of double standard there that exists for no reason other than to punish certain types of males and especially single males that would be more in tune to notice the mannequins.

kowenicki said: @killerman In how many countries is murder of one citizen by another accepted? Answer: None.. (dont bring the death penalty in, thats different) In how many countries are women put down, belittled, enslaved and raped legally (mainly in mariage)? Answer: Quite a few. Thats why its different Everyone knows that murder isnt right, but maybe this game can help perpetuate the thought that rape and the control of women is ok. That is wrong.

 

Using the same logic games like GTA can help perpetuate the thought that killing is ok. You just shoot somebody in the head and then drive couple of miles and the cops no more chase you. it's no different.

@Kowenicki: When kids get the hang of what different sex means, they start to play harassing the opposite sex. Although, when they do this, they don't actually understand the play yet, just like they don't understand their war games.

No, you said that "the game can only come from the of a very troubled male". Which i strongly disagree, since it can come the mind of very troubled female aswell.
As for a society that lives in the dark ages, this comment kind of presents why people are so up against the game. It's not the morally questionable content, since we have it in a lot of games, but the "i don't like it" and the thing that this actually happens in the society (the game and what it describes) and people wants to live in denial.
The same standards you are using in approving the "murder simulation" games, automatically warrant the acceptance of "rape simulation" games.

KillerMan said: kowenicki said: @killerman In how many countries is murder of one citizen by another accepted? Answer: None.. (dont bring the death penalty in, thats different) In how many countries are women put down, belittled, enslaved and raped legally (mainly in mariage)? Answer: Quite a few. Thats why its different Everyone knows that murder isnt right, but maybe this game can help perpetuate the thought that rape and the control of women is ok. That is wrong.   Using the same logic games like GTA can help perpetuate the thought that killing is ok. You just shoot somebody in the head and then drive couple of miles and the cops no more chase you. it's no different.

Not really.

At no point does GTA glorify killing. You are a gangster, it is your job.

Having said that, a game like Manhunt rewards you for killing people in creative ways.

Now, let me explain why I agree with Kowenicki:

Games include "murder" because, to be frank, players enjoy it. It gives a sense of accomplishment, of achievement. Generally, the person you are killing (in a game) is evil, so you are making the world a better place. Very few people would even be able to consider the possibility of killing a human in real life. I know I couldn't. We are all taught that murder in real life is wrong, and yet violence in a video game is insane amounts of fun. There are no repercussions, and no guilt. No having to live with the fact that the person you killed will never breathe, eat, or see their family again.

And now rape. I don't see how anybody could enjoy that. But that is besides the point. People consider one who rapes a pervert; a sick, twisted bastard. Unlike killing, there can really be no justification for rape. You are knowingly causing pain to another human. There's no guilt of them never seeing the light of day again, but they are haunted for the rest of their life. Now, many people who could not consider killing somebody could commit rape with no feelings of remorse. We are taught from a young age that killing is bad, pretty much from the time we are born, while a young child will not know that rape is bad, he probably will not know what is going on, actually.

But that's not quite it. I don't think it could turn somebody into a rapist, just like GTA won't turn somebody into a gangster murderer, and LBP won't turn somebody into a piece of cotton. It's just sick. Really, really disgusting. As I said, in a war, killing can be considered honorable, in self defence, if the person is truly evil. There can never be a good reason to commit rape.

Then, of course, I, and most people in this thread, on this site, and in this world, would rather play a game with killing than a game with raping. How many ways can you kill, and how many ways can you rape? Without the fun factor, and with including something horrible and disgusting, there's really no excuse for this game to exist.

I dunno... Madworld got released, but this is different....

@Kantor: Yeah, great reasoning. Except you didn't explain why one is better than other.
You're gangster in GTA and therefore you're allowed to kill.
You're a pervert in the raping game and therefore allowed to rape.
You may notice that neither actually justifies killing or raping.

Games include murder because people enjoy that and other games include raping because other people enjoy that.
Now you justified killing with enjoyment, but the same goes for raping.

Killing someone evil makes you evil. Or what if the one you rape in a game is so evil that it makes the world a better place, like believes in the wrong god is an atheist or maybe happens to be someone you're in war with.

The same way a killer can justify killing, a rapist can justify rape. It can be a method of getting laid or get your genes reproduced/forwarded.

I would bet that there are just as many ways to rape someone, that there are ways to kill.
And, outside a democratic decision, "most people would like to play something else" is a lame excuse, since the same goes for GTA for example. It's only the minority of the gamers that actually play it.

Kantor said: KillerMan said: kowenicki said: @killerman In how many countries is murder of one citizen by another accepted? Answer: None.. (dont bring the death penalty in, thats different) In how many countries are women put down, belittled, enslaved and raped legally (mainly in mariage)? Answer: Quite a few. Thats why its different Everyone knows that murder isnt right, but maybe this game can help perpetuate the thought that rape and the control of women is ok. That is wrong.   Using the same logic games like GTA can help perpetuate the thought that killing is ok. You just shoot somebody in the head and then drive couple of miles and the cops no more chase you. it's no different. Not really. At no point does GTA glorify killing. You are a gangster, it is your job. Having said that, a game like Manhunt rewards you for killing people in creative ways. Now, let me explain why I agree with Kowenicki: Games include "murder" because, to be frank, players enjoy it. It gives a sense of accomplishment, of achievement. Generally, the person you are killing (in a game) is evil, so you are making the world a better place. Very few people would even be able to consider the possibility of killing a human in real life. I know I couldn't. We are all taught that murder in real life is wrong, and yet violence in a video game is insane amounts of fun. There are no repercussions, and no guilt. No having to live with the fact that the person you killed will never breathe, eat, or see their family again. And now rape. I don't see how anybody could enjoy that. But that is besides the point. People consider one who rapes a pervert; a sick, twisted bastard. Unlike killing, there can really be no justification for rape. You are knowingly causing pain to another human. There's no guilt of them never seeing the light of day again, but they are haunted for the rest of their life. Now, many people who could not consider killing somebody could commit rape with no feelings of remorse. We are taught from a young age that killing is bad, pretty much from the time we are born, while a young child will not know that rape is bad, he probably will not know what is going on, actually. But that's not quite it. I don't think it could turn somebody into a rapist, just like GTA won't turn somebody into a gangster murderer, and LBP won't turn somebody into a piece of cotton. It's just sick. Really, really disgusting. As I said, in a war, killing can be considered honorable, in self defence, if the person is truly evil. There can never be a good reason to commit rape. Then, of course, I, and most people in this thread, on this site, and in this world, would rather play a game with killing than a game with raping. How many ways can you kill, and how many ways can you rape? Without the fun factor, and with including something horrible and disgusting, there's really no excuse for this game to exist.

I don't really get this justification. Killing innocent civilians is ok because it's fun, feels good, and besides that's just what your character does? But a rape game isn't fun, doesn't feel good, and it's out of character for your avatar? Nope. Basically you're morally hardwired to find violence satisfying and raping wrong. Western culture is very violence oriented. Not That I'm complaining, I was just playing Mad World. But in GTA4 a middle aged woman will cower on the ground and beg not to be killed before you shoot her in cold blood for no good reason. How is that not morally abhorrent? Oh, right. It's fun.

I don't think it should be banned.

Don't get me wrong - I don't believe it should be freely circulated, in fact I wish it did not exist, or at least that I had never heard of it.

But banning things gets them publicity, and that would be bad too. And there's no practical way of enforcing a ban anyway. So all that a ban would do would be to make a moral stand, while increasing awareness of, and imports of, the game.

On the whole, the fewer copies of this thing are around the better. So it should not be banned or, for that matter, reviewed, discussed or in any other way publicised.