http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3135350

oh and here is a link to a 1up article that highlights Super Mario 64. In it they mention what I said about Miyamoto and carts. Scroll down to the FFVII picture of Cloud holding his sword, the paragraph sub title is The Shape of Things That Came and read the second paragraph. If you're too lazy to do that I'll copy and paste it and bold the important parts.

"Although it's difficult to say precisely how much of the Nintendo 64's design was shaped by Mario 64, both the weird tri-handle controller and the expensive cartridge format were reportedly implemented at Miyamoto's request for the sake of his magnum opus."

And if you read a few paragraphs down it says...

"But it's no exaggeration to say that the N64 was largely built around the needs of Mario 64, all the way down to the system's launch (which was reportedly delayed at least once to allow the game to be completed to the developers' liking)."

So please, don't pretend that Miyamoto, the person behind the game that would make or break N64, had no say in what happened with the system. He's always had a say in things.

Edit-I think the problem with the FFVII translation is that it was rushed. It was worse than all the others though so maybe Sony did use their own team and they might not have been prepared to translate a game of this calibur.

 I agree that third parties don't owe 1st parties anything.

The one thing I see wrong here, is that SCE is the 3rd biggest shareholder in SE (up from 4th last year) at 8.58%.  So that is some affiliation.

It is true, if it weren't for Sony, SE wouldn't be where it is today.  If it weren't for SE, Sony wouldn't be where it is either.  They have helped each other alot in times of need, and in Japanese business that does merit for something.

If you are an SE fan, go with Sony and Nintendo this generation. 

And Nintendo published and advertised Final Fantasy in North America, the game that saved Square from going bankrupt. It still doesn't mean they owe Nintendo anything. I can't believe people. Do you really expect a 3rd party to worship every console that they ever made money on? Of course they won't. Subsidized advertising means nothing either. Sony subsidized advertisement for hundreds of games in the PSone era. That was how they courted 3rd parties to their system over the Nintendo 64. They still subsidize advertisement and development constantly. They aren't doing it to help the company, they are doing it because they think it will sell consoles. That is nothing more than a business agreement. Get over it.

As far as your quote from 1UP that Mario 64 (and indirectly Miyamoto) determined the use of cartriges, I refer you to these sources:

"When Hiroshi Yamauchi read the (already signed by Nintendo) original 1988 contract between Sony and Nintendo and learned that it allowed Sony 25% of the profits from the machine, he was furious. He deemed the contract totally unacceptable, and secretly cancelled all plans for a joint Nintendo-Sony SNES CD attachment. "

http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/nintendo-64.htm

"Yamauchi - a stubborn man - rejected all calls to move away from the relatively secure cartridge, and in turn assured Square that any game could be accommodated, even if it meant spreading its new RPG across several cartridges. Square rejected this idea and, under constant courting from the emerging PlayStation camp, cancelled Ultra 64 Final Fantasy and announced that it would be releasing Final Fantasy VII as a PlayStation exclusive."

http://news.spong.com/article/9303?cb=655

There are more but I'm bored of this. The point is that the official press statement was that they needed cartridges for the games. IT is well known that what actually happened is Yamauchi was pissed that Sony was trying to take a cut of the profits (which they deserved... they were the ones implementing the format after all), and refused to upgrade.

As FinalEvangelion said, it's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's nothing but business. I have nothing against Sony or Nintendo, but SE doesn't owe either of them jack. You can't spend your whole business career in debt to anyone who ever helped make your console succcessful. For one thing, you won't be successful anymore if you refuse to move with the times. If you like SE, and you want to play all their games, you are going to need a PS3, a Wii, a DS, and a PSP this generation. I'm 3/4 of the way there. I'm glad they don't just focus on one platform for once. It means the games they make will be much more diverse.

Well obviously Square should call up Ralph H. Baer and ask him where Final Fantasy should go.

If it wasn't for him and the Magnavox Odyssey we wouldn't have video systems period and Square would be making choose your own adventure novels or something.

I don't think Square Enix owes Nintendo anything. Nintendo was paid back in full with the popularity of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest on their consoles.

That said, I think Square Enix is making a mistake spreading its products over so many consoles. Sooner or later it will have to make some decisions about who to support or it will wind up like Sega.

S-E cant end up like SEGA mainly because S-E dont make consoles.

They can end up like Sega as in, "We're platform agnostic now! Oops, our fans don't feel like buying three different systems to get our games..."

Four* different systems lol. However, you are going to have to live with it. SE has made it pretty clear they aren't going to only support one platform this generation. If you don't own a DS, PSP, Wii, and PS3 you are already behind on the biggest SE games.

Nintendo did publish FF in America, but it didn't sell very well. FF saved their company because of the Japanese sales numbers. Sony on the other hand has helped FF become a gigantic franchise and that's when Square became a major player in North America. They may not owe anyone, but if the topic creator is determined to say they do, it would be Sony more than Nintendo.

No, I don't expect a third party to worship a console because they made money on it, but Sony DID help Square. There was also the stock thing that I mentioned which helped them out, but you ignored that point.

As for the CDs, yes it is a well know fact that Nintendo rejected the Playstation because they didn't want Sony taking a cut. However The PS add-on wasn't the N64. Nintendo could have used CDs for that if they wanted to, but opted not to. Most people claim it was because of Miyamoto wanting carts for Mario and Zelda, and since the entire console was riding on the success of Mario 64, It's not that far of a stretch to say he got what he wanted. Also, you used spong as a source? That's one of the least credible sites I've ever seen. All they do is report false info and confirm rumors as facts.

Now I don't recall saying Square employees should devote their lives to Sony like you seem to think I did. I'm just saying that Sony helped them out more than Nintendo. It really seems like you just wanted to start a fight for no real reason so you did, then try and act like you're above everyone with petty insults and the like.

I never insulted you.  I just said that I wish there was an age limit on the site.  If you took that as an offense, then you are obviously insecure about your age. 

The Nintendo 64 was a direct response to the failed negotiations with Sony.  They did not use CDs because it was the format Sony was pushing, and they were trying to knock Sony from the market by sticking with the safe format.  It was Yamauchi's own stubborness (as reported by numerous sources) that stopped them from moving with the times.

Square certainly wasn't "saved" by Sony like you said.  They would have done just fine on the incredible Japanese sales of FFVII.  Just as the incredible sales of FFI were what saved them on the NES.  As far as the stock thing, I'd like to see a link about that.  All I remembered happening after the flop of FF:SW was a delay in the Square Enix merger.  Square Pictures in fact WAS bankrupted by the venture.  Where was Sony then?  Did they pay to keep Square Pictures alive?  No, they didn't.

I stand by my point that Square doesn't owe Sony, or anyone else, anything.  Sony was paid back for their investment in FFVII with great system sales.  Nintendo was paid for their investment in FF with the same.  Square owes no one anything except us, the consumers.  They owe us quality games.