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naznatips on 04 September 2007
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Edouble24 said:
naznatips said:
Edouble24 said:
naznatips said:
Edouble24 said:
Square left Nintendo because they didn't want to use carts. Money talks? Square took a BIG risk by leaving the current console champion in favor of a platform that supported their vision. N64 was originally supposed to use CDs but Miyamoto Yamauchi didn't want that because of load times, and he got his way. Square had FFVII planned for a CD based system and Nintendo changed their position. Square doesn't owe them a thing...

If anything they owe Sony, if it weren't for Sony Square probably wouldn't be a major player in North America as their big series, Final Fantasy, probably wouldn't have caught on like it did. They don't owe anyone. they are a 3rd party for Christ's sake. They make games, and they make them on systems that they expect them to sell on. Do you think DQ was moved to the DS for artistic reasons? Of course not, it's because that's where they will make the most money. Get over yourselves. Square will make games wherever they damn well please and they don't owe anyone.

 

Uh no, it was Miyamoto that was pushing for carts because he didn't want load times in Mario 64. Yamauchi made the final decision but it was still Miyamoto who wanted it that way and he has a lot of say in what happens.

And I did say IF they owe anyone. Like it or not, Sony surely helped Square become what they are today. If it weren't for Sony I don't think FFVII would have been nearly as popular as it is now in America, and in turn the series itself would not be as popular.

 



You know what I would love? If for once, just for one day, people would either not post about things they know nothing about, or at least admit they were wrong when they are corrected. Miyamoto was just a developer for Nintendo back then. A famous developer, but a developer nontheless. It was solely Yamauchi touting the strength of cartridges and the irrelevance of CDs. Miyamoto simply listened to his boss. Of course he didn't say "cartridges suck, Nintendo fails," but that doesn't mean he's the one who was fighting for it's position. You have no clue what you are talking about and I recommend you simply stop trying to discuss this with me.

Sony did not help Square become anything. Square made their own games, and their own success. They are responsible for themselves, and they have no affiliation or loyalty to either Sony or Nintendo. I mean my god console gaming wouldn't exist at all if it wasn't for the NES, but every developer doesn't thank Nintendo for their success. I wish this site had an age limit sometimes. Who am I kidding, I wish this site had an age limit all the time.

I'd love for people to argue civilly instead of acting all high and mighty. The Miyamoto thing was taken from Nintendo Power before the N64 released, they specifically said he wanted to use carts so there would be no load times in Mario 64 and OoT. Now of course, I didn't talk to the higher ups at Nintendo to find out the real story, I'm just going by what was said by both Nintendo and Miyamoto. Maybe they're lying for some good PR but I can't be sure of that, and you can't be either.

As for Sony not helping square...god you have to be kidding me. You're example of Nintendo being successful isn't relevent at all. Sony and Square dealth with each other directly. Sony paid the the translation and backed FFVII with a 100 million dollar advertising budget. Yes Sony did that for Final Fantasy VII. Oh wait, you're going to tell me the biggest ad campaign ever for a game(at that time) had nothing to do with it's success in North America? The CG commercials airing on major TV stations, print ads in non-game magazines, radio ads, Pepsi ads, etc etc. But that's not helping Square?

Ok how about this. When Final Fantasy SW bombed and almost put Square out of business, Sony supported them by purchasing some stock in them so they wouldn't go under. How is this stuff not helping Square?

If for once, just for one day, people would either not post about things they know nothing about, or at least admit they were wrong when they are corrected.

Now I hope you aren't a hypocrite, because Sony has cleared helped Square.

As for the age limit, you seem to be the one incapable of handling a civil debate and instead try to insult people. That's not the most mature way of handling things.


And Nintendo published and advertised Final Fantasy in North America, the game that saved Square from going bankrupt. It still doesn't mean they owe Nintendo anything. I can't believe people. Do you really expect a 3rd party to worship every console that they ever made money on? Of course they won't. Subsidized advertising means nothing either. Sony subsidized advertisement for hundreds of games in the PSone era. That was how they courted 3rd parties to their system over the Nintendo 64. They still subsidize advertisement and development constantly. They aren't doing it to help the company, they are doing it because they think it will sell consoles. That is nothing more than a business agreement. Get over it.

As far as your quote from 1UP that Mario 64 (and indirectly Miyamoto) determined the use of cartriges, I refer you to these sources:

"When Hiroshi Yamauchi read the (already signed by Nintendo) original 1988 contract between Sony and Nintendo and learned that it allowed Sony 25% of the profits from the machine, he was furious. He deemed the contract totally unacceptable, and secretly cancelled all plans for a joint Nintendo-Sony SNES CD attachment. "

http://www.consolepassion.co.uk/nintendo-64.htm

"Yamauchi - a stubborn man - rejected all calls to move away from the relatively secure cartridge, and in turn assured Square that any game could be accommodated, even if it meant spreading its new RPG across several cartridges. Square rejected this idea and, under constant courting from the emerging PlayStation camp, cancelled Ultra 64 Final Fantasy and announced that it would be releasing Final Fantasy VII as a PlayStation exclusive."

http://news.spong.com/article/9303?cb=655

There are more but I'm bored of this. The point is that the official press statement was that they needed cartridges for the games. IT is well known that what actually happened is Yamauchi was pissed that Sony was trying to take a cut of the profits (which they deserved... they were the ones implementing the format after all), and refused to upgrade.

As FinalEvangelion said, it's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's nothing but business. I have nothing against Sony or Nintendo, but SE doesn't owe either of them jack. You can't spend your whole business career in debt to anyone who ever helped make your console succcessful. For one thing, you won't be successful anymore if you refuse to move with the times. If you like SE, and you want to play all their games, you are going to need a PS3, a Wii, a DS, and a PSP this generation. I'm 3/4 of the way there. I'm glad they don't just focus on one platform for once. It means the games they make will be much more diverse.