Killzone3 said: A PC game maker saying PS3 is harder to dev then the 360, really iam shocked (not) Iam a console gamer, valve means nothing to me (honestly valve id me no care). Square Konami Insomniacs NDog Polyphony Digital mean alot. Complaints really mean nothing to me other then to aviad that devs game, for every one crying its hard theres some one praising it and showing off its capability. I know PS3 is hard to dev on, but i also see Killzone GT5 Uncharted FF13 MGS4 and i just dont care about some excuse as Team Ninja guy called it. "other developers will take notice" They did and they figured it out, Ubisoft did the guys behind CoD4 have hell they were insulted when 1up joked that the PS3 version will be 30fps, their anwser to how they did it was a cold "we programmed it" The whole its hard has quickly become an embarrassment, like Madden in EAs case where they had to defend them selfs and make up the we lacked time excuse. ps- thread nicely derailed aint it, PS3 superior power hard to accept hehe.

If by derailed you mean someone pointed out how you took a quote out of context then yes it was completely derailed. Stripping away all the bad parts and only posting the good is at its core a very fanboy thing to do, I don't know if you did it on purpose or if you just stumbled onto the second page of the article but someone pointing out the context it was stated in was very valid. And the natural progression of whether this was another EA complaint or actually a valve complaint was a further natural extension of the thread.

You are entitled to your opinion obviously, and you can pick and choose which people you will listen to but personally I find it a lot harder to ignore when it is not just major developers saying the same thing but the developers known for quality. I have a hard time just dismissing this just because they are known for their PC development and not their console development. Partly because I know there are more similarities than dissimilarities between the platforms, but mostly because I know Valve won't make half-assed attempts at games and just release them.

As for the EA madden issue specifically, where are you getting the idea that EA just made up an excuse? I'm not saying you're wrong I just haven't seen anything that indicates that. Or are you making an assumption on that? If it is an assumption then I will say once again you are entitled to your opinion but try to be a little more careful about passing your opinions off as fact.

Finally I have to ask this question since it seems highly hypocritical to me,  if you meant what you said when you posted this:

"I am a console gamer, valve means nothing to me"

Then why did you post this thread at all if it truly means nothing? At the risk of being rude I will give you my opinion of the reason:

You are only interested in positive PS3 news and have no interest in a fair assesment of the situation.

I'm sure many who read this thread are thinking the same thing, so I decided to just state it flat out. You are entitled to this view and you can believe what you want but its pretty clear to me that this is your sole motivation with this thread and more than likely the reason the negative context is missing from your OP. Thats my opinion and I luckily am just as entitled to it as you are to your opinions.

Well anyways, I have made my position on this article very clear, so I will just leave it at that.

 

Killzone3 said: Sqrl said: Killzone3 said: Sqrl said: Killzone3 said: So the average guy cant do much with it, me no cares. Top developers will tap the sob like they did the PS2! And they do say PS2 was harder to dev on. Valve is easily one of the best, if not the best, developer out there when it comes to making the most out of hardware. The source engine is an amazing testiment to that. Coming from this developer this says a LOT. Yahh but arent they or weren't they mainly a PC dev ? so they never really experienced that pain of PS2 development which was harder then PS3. And the whole industy managed pretty damn good results on the PS2, should be no different on Ps3 with it being easier to dev on.   I appreciate the angle you are coming from here, I truly do. But you have to understand that at the core all computer hardware has basic intrinsic similarities. In order to draw every ounce of power out of the hardware you need to understand these fundamentals and then you need to understand how the fundamentals build up the machine. Since I started following HL2, Valve has alwayas been a reserved developer and they have always been careful about what they say. So when this kind of comment is made, it makes me sit up and say "Whoa....". They simply would not have made this kind of comment unless they had already rolled up their sleaves and dug in for a deep forray with the box. Notice that he didn't say it was impossible only that it was difficult. The reason this is important isn't as shallow as valve is a good development studio and when they say its hard its hard (although thats part of it). The real important factor here is that the PS2 support was a necessity so its strange hardware got the support because developers had to. The same is not true with the PS3, so there is a very real possibility that the PS3 could lose 3rd party support if the issue is as prevalent as we are being told. Other developers like Ubisoft, EA, Activision, I can understand blowing their complaints off as they are all about the bottom line and they aren't willing to put huge sums of effort into their products. Valve is just not like those other developers they have always been willing to go the extra mile to produce something special, and their games do a lot of that talking for them imo. I think it would be a mistake to ignore these comments out of hand and I think other developers will take notice... A PC game maker saying PS3 is harder to dev then the 360, really iam shocked (not) Iam a console gamer, valve means nothing to me (honestly valve id me no care). Square Konami Insomniacs NDog Polyphony Digital mean alot. Complaints really mean nothing to me other then to aviad that devs game, for every one crying its hard theres some one praising it and showing off its capability. I know PS3 is hard to dev on, but i also see Killzone GT5 Uncharted FF13 MGS4 and i just dont care about some excuse as Team Ninja guy called it. "other developers will take notice" They did and they figured it out, Ubisoft did the guys behind CoD4 have hell they were insulted when 1up joked that the PS3 version will be 30fps, their anwser to how they did it was a cold "we programmed it" The whole its hard has quickly become an embarrassment, like Madden in EAs case where they had to defend them selfs and make up the we lacked time excuse. ps- thread nicely derailed aint it, PS3 superior power hard to accept hehe.

 To Sqrl, even though Valve has source code for all three platforms, it's still possible that EA is helping development for PS3.

And as for this killzone3 quote...you say you don't care about Valve, then I don't care what you say anymore.  Why even make this thread if you don't care about what Valve thinks.

OH WAIT I know why, because for some reason the Cell gives you a boner.  We're trying to have an actual discussion about coding among PC, 360 and PS3, and you just troll saying people are "derailing the topic"...the topic that is just meant to glorify the PS3's power apparently.

If you don't care about Valve, then I don't consider you a human being... 

God your a pathetic joke of a mod, seriously.

Good to see wii fanboys trolling hard and a mod in on it with them.

Good to see your bais, lately is was all shams with you being quiet but you cant hide you true colors for long can you.

Thread was about power right of the bat until PS3 haters whined and cried with the typical oh its hard to develop for.

if ioi wants this site to be seen as legit and not just a a nintendo haven he should get rid of the likes of you.

BenKenobi88 said: This doesn't really seem like good news, I don't get why you're excited. Yes, that means future games certainly have potential. But if VALVE can't get the PS3 to CURRENTLY work much better than the 360, I don't see how that's good.

Try answering this question and perhaps you may get an inkinling of how this may be good: Will time continue to pass as it has done since before anyone could conceive of it, or will we suddenly be stuck in today forever?

hehehe, a boner. Wii fanboy or not, the force is with Kenobii on this one killzone3. Besides, the valve dev said that they don't know how much power they used up, because no one actually knows where that boundry is. That means one thing for sure: Sony never gave full info on there console to devs. Furthermore it can very well happen that the PS3 is using 90% or even slightly more to run Half life 2.

Oh right, that thing you said about not caring for valve, yet you posted this thread about PS3 superiority supposeably confirmed by valve, then getting excited about it.....that's really stupid. Wait let me write that one more time: REALLY STUPID.

But what does a guy that got an A+ on mathematical logic know about your reasoning, right?

Ohhh thread gone wrong, Ps3 is more powerful duhh, 360 is easier to port from PC duhh.

Valve has don't nothing on console to worrant any serious ass kissing, but they are top 2/3 on PC.

Killzone3 said: God your a pathetic joke of a mod, seriously. Good to see wii fanboys trolling hard and a mod in on it with them. Good to see your bais, lately is was all shams with you being quiet but you cant hide you true colors for long can you. Thread was about power right of the bat until PS3 haters whined and cried with the typical oh its hard to develop for. if ioi wants this site to be seen as legit and not just a a nintendo haven he should get rid of the likes of you.

KZ3, do you actually understand what you've read? They're not saying the Ps3 has OMG SO MUCH MORE POWER THAN THE 360 WE CAN'T FATHOM ITS LIMITS!!! hell, they don't even give any indication that the Ps3 version will or will not be as good or better than the 360's. They're saying that they don't know the system's overall paremeters, and can't say if they're at 50% or 90% of the system's power. All this implies a greater difficulty in developing for the system. If anyone is to blame for this thread not being pro-ps3, its you for linking to that article.

mistrerd, it does not matter what article he would link, you know damn well the thread would be trolled derailed and like always would become a big flame war.

As far as power they aren't even using the SPUs!!! you think there not much juice left in the PS3 LOL. Alot of you seem to miss that little fact.

Why did a thread about potential console capability go right in to the typical PS3 hater fanboy response of "ohh well PS3 is hard to develop for"

If the article does not prove PS3 power why are they countering Killzone3s point with ohh well its hard to develop for. Why not explain why it does not mean much as far as their power is concerned. Shiet not every one is a computer nerd, dude sees 360 almost maxed out while PS3 version not even using SPUs the things touted as the Cell power. Well you get his view point ?

Come on it is rediculous to start bashing Killzone 3 for no freaking reason. Why is he to blame if a dev says the PS3 has more power than the 360. Don't shoot the messenger.

@ everyone accusing Sony fanboys of jumping on graphics just because of PS3

Have you guys seen some of the stuff PS2 pulled off. Sure the chipset was weaker, and the PS2 did not have as much RAM as the other systems, but it sure did make some awsome looking games. Anyone that thinks GT4 was not the best looking racer last gen is in denial. How about God of War 2 I think plenty of Sony fans have gloated about how awsome the graphics are in that game.

What people fail to realize is that the PS2 was the best designed system of last gen. Even with vastly underpowered hardware compared to the competition it continued to stand up next to its rivals in graphics. The reason it did this is because of the design and how the EE and GS worked together. Now with the PS3 Sony has the best hardware, the same amount of Ram, and they still have the Genius design Ken Kuteragi is known for. Cell and RSX might as well be one chip, oh my god did you guys know that EE and GS became one chip in the end of PS2 life, bet I know another console that will do the same thing. The only downfall to this design is it is hard to get people to use it the right way. A lot of devs are set on putting CPU stuff on the CPU and GPU stuff on the GPU, so early games are just crap. However as you go along justa as we saw with the PS2 stuff starts to happen that devs said we will never be able to do that. And you know what Playstation fans have known this for years.

So PS guys gloating about good graphics is not this new thing to the industry. It has been around for quite a while, and it will continue and get even worse this gen, so I hope that all the KK haters are ready to bash the hell out of the people that see his geniu, because you are going to be doing it a lot over the next 8 years at least.

AllAll said: mistrerd, it does not matter what article he would link, you know damn well the thread would be trolled derailed and like always would become a big flame war. As far as power they aren't even using the SPUs!!! you think there not much juice left in the PS3 LOL. Alot of you seem to miss that little fact. Why did a thread about potential console capability go right in to the typical PS3 hater fanboy response of "ohh well PS3 is hard to develop for" If the article does not prove PS3 power why are they countering Killzone3s point with ohh well its hard to develop for. Why not explain why it does not mean much as far as their power is concerned. Shiet not every one is a computer nerd, dude sees 360 almost maxed out while PS3 version not even using SPUs the things touted as the Cell power. Well you get his view point ?

Dude, read the rest of the interview. The dev said it himself that the PS3 is much more difficult to develope for. He took a few shots at the cell architecture as well. We're pointing out what Killzone3 oh so accidently missed out on during posting this thread.