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Forums - Sales - Is the PS3 selling badly? Why do you think it is/isn't?

URNotE on 26 August 2007

its a wonder what a little editting can do



URNOTE Proud Owner of a 60GB PS3 Console (Purchased 12/22/06)

 #1 reason MGS4 is PS3 exclusive  xbox is too loud for snake to sneak around
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Final-Fan on 26 August 2007

Very witty, but the 3rd point is wrong. The 360 was doing about the same as compared to the original until it started to really pull ahead about 60 weeks in.



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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KruzeS on 26 August 2007
Final-Fan said:

[What does everyone have to say now?]

That I was wrong about the GC. And thank you to John, it's always good to know about new data.

Again, I was wrong about the GC, which I suspected might be true, seen as historically Nintendo consoles don't sell well in Europe compared to other markets, and Playstations do. The GC sold very poorly in Europe; fortunately, the Wii seems to be breaking that trend.

But do note that selling worse than the GC in America and Japan, and more respectably in Europe (even a bit in Japan), would mean something in the range of 25-30 million units for the PS3. I honestly don't think that'd make the PS3 a "a successful, profitable console, in a solid second place, and a good springboard for the PS4". I still think it'll do better than that, but that means it's got to do better than what it's doing right now.

As to the PS2... yes, the PS3 when ploted on a 120 million units scale doesn't seem to be doing much worse. However, keep in mind that the PS2 had barely just launched in the American or the European markets by this time in it's life. It launched in America at around week 35, and in some of Europe at around week 40, while being heavily supply constrained all over the world. So we're really comparing PS2 in Japan vs. PS3 worldwide when we look at the overall chart. Regionaly, the PS2 did much better in each of the three.



Reality has a Nintendo bias.
FinalEvangelion on 26 August 2007
URNotE said:
Final-Fan said:
WiteoutKing said:
URNotE said:
WiteoutKing said:
The Wii is far outperforming its predecessor.
The 360 is performing as well as its predecessor, if not better.

Can the PS3 make that claim?

That is why the PS3 is failing right now. Plain and simple.

wait a minute so thats everyones logic just because its not outperforming the ps2 hahahahahahahahahahaha thats laughable.. VERY LAUGHABLE its hard for any console to match that.. if anything those are biased comments let alone unjust comments.. the ps2 set the standard for the last generation so the 360 ps3 and wii should be looking to go above that standard... only one that is on route to do it is the wii... the fact that you and everyone else would single out the ps3 not meeting that standard is biased and unjust in my opinion.... so i guess sega should hope to equal dreamcast numbers according to you if they come out with another console... come on yal give it a rest with the BS...


In this industry, success is measured on three things:

1. Profit. The PS3 is not pulling profit and honestly can't expect to for a few years. Billions of dollars will be lost by Sony in this venture.

2. Hardware units sold. At the rate it's going, the PS3 would be lucky to break 35 million over the course of its life. It's at under 5 million in 9 months.

3. Living up to the hype and/or exceeding it. The PS3 was hyped. A lot. And as the successor to the PS2 it should have sold plenty. It doesn't have to sell MORE per sé. But being in the general ballpark is a must. The PS3 failed to do that.

 

The PS3 has failed on all three fronts.


1. Same as 360 if not better

2. Better than 360 was 9 months from launch

3. No argument that the PS3 was supposed to sell like PS2 and failed. But allow me to quote myself from this very thread: "There is no way the PS3 can take first this generation. However, it can be a successful, profitable console, in a solid second place, and a good springboard for the PS4. If that happens, the PS3 will have been a success. It is not wildly unlikely that it will do exactly that, which makes it at this time not a failure."

"Once again we come to "poor sales vs. PS2" YES THAT IS TRUE. And it will never, ever, have PS2 sales. However, as I have said repeatedly, that does not mean the PS3 cannot be successful judged by its own merits and faults. See previous posts."

Not as successful as the PS2, or as successful as it was supposed to be, but successful. You may disagree.

[edit: [edit2: This section, in which I stated a belief that the PS3 was selling as well as the PS2 did, has been debunked. I was using data that lacked European numbers, apparently.]]


In this industry, success is measured on three things:

1. Profit. The 360 is not pulling profit and honestly can't expect to for a few years. Billions of dollars will be lost by Microsoft because of hardware failure

2. Hardware units sold. At the rate it's going, the 360 would be lucky to break 35 million over the course of its life. It's at under 11 million in 22 months.

3. Living up to the hype and/or exceeding it. The 360 was hyped. A lot. And as the successor to the high powered xbox it should have sold plenty more. It doesn't have to sell MORE per sé. But being in the general ballpark is a must. The 360 failed to do that.

 

The 360 has failed on all three fronts.


 

Let's not forget that the 360 had no competitor at $200 cheaper at this point in it's life, while the PS3 has two competitors, and has been doing roughly the same (about 20k higher) as the 360.

 

The fact that the PS3 has now started selling better than the 360 worldwide given the situation makes me think that it will probably get second place.  For getting first place, it will probably have to wait until the PS4.  

 

The PS3 will be a slow riser to gain its momentum.  Seeing that PS3 sales haven't slowed much since the price cut, and in Japan it's holding after a major release, I'm having a bit more faith that it won't be 3rd place. 



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

Final-Fan on 26 August 2007
KruzeS said:
@goddog

As I said in my post the PS3 is losing in its best market (Japan), whereas the 360 is still leading its best market (America). The 360 also built a 6 million unit lead which would keep them ahead for 5 years at the current rate. Right now, things look undeniably better for the 360. You may think its future is gloomier than the PS3's, and that things are going to improve for the PS3, but that's your opinion.

Also... going from "unquestionable market leader" (PS2) to this (PS3), does look much worse than going from "new rookie that did not so bad" (Xbox) to this (360).


Why is Japan the PS3's best market?  Oh, you mean the PS2's best market.  Even so, it only sold 25 million there, as opposed to 48 and 45 in America and Europe.  Anyway, regional strengths don't always remain the same when the hardware cycle takes the next step. 

For a declining example, the N64 was almost as popular in America and Europe as the SNES was -- the dramatically lower numbers are because the Japanese hated the thing for some reason.  

For a dominant example, the GBA's strongest territory is/was America, followed by Europe, followed by Japan.  The DS's strongest territory, conversely, is Japan, with Europe barely ahead of America.  

Who knows what the PS3's strongest territory will be, once they stop dicking around with bundles and so on? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Final-Fan on 26 August 2007
KruzeS said:
Final-Fan said:

[What does everyone have to say now?]

That I was wrong about the GC. And thank you to John, it's always good to know about new data.

Again, I was wrong about the GC, which I suspected might be true, seen as historically Nintendo consoles don't sell well in Europe compared to other markets, and Playstations do. The GC sold very poorly in Europe; fortunately, the Wii seems to be breaking that trend.

But do note that selling worse than the GC in America and Japan, and more respectably in Europe (even a bit in Japan), would mean something in the range of 25-30 million units for the PS3. I honestly don't think that'd make the PS3 a "a successful, profitable console, in a solid second place, and a good springboard for the PS4". I still think it'll do better than that, but that means it's got to do better than what it's doing right now.

As to the PS2... yes, the PS3 when ploted on a 120 million units scale doesn't seem to be doing much worse. However, keep in mind that the PS2 had barely just launched in the American or the European markets by this time in it's life. It launched in America at around week 35, and in some of Europe at around week 40, while being heavily supply constrained all over the world. So we're really comparing PS2 in Japan vs. PS3 worldwide when we look at the overall chart. Regionaly, the PS2 did much better in each of the three.


I was looking at the WEEKLY sales.  The PS2 is ahead at the start, and behind later on . . . until it came out on all markets.  So yeah, you're still right there. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

KruzeS on 26 August 2007
Final-Fan said:

Why is Japan the PS3's best market?  Oh, you mean the PS2's best market.

No, I mean PS3. Because it has a 25% market share there (vs. 15% in America and 18% in Europe). I'm also talking about right now (as I've repeatedly stated all over my posts), not anytime soon.

I wholly expect things to improve for the PS3, though not as much as others seem to do: not enough to get it first place, not enough make it second in America, not enough to make it profitable and not enough to give it what I'd call a respectable second place. Simply enough to make the PS3 and 360 combined with their "disexclusives" a quite respectable (and even vital) alternative to the Wii, that's all.

But that's my opinion, and load of futurology. Right now, all is not lost for the PS3, but nothing is already won either.



Reality has a Nintendo bias.
Lost tears of Kain on 26 August 2007
Final-Fan said:
Lost tears of Kain said:
Final-Fan said:
HappySqurriel said:

I would just like every person who is saying the PS3 isn't selling that badly to sit back and try a mental excercise ...

Imagine that the sales were different and the PS3 was the fastest selling game console in history and just passed the XBox 360 and (on average) outsold the XBox 360 and Wii combined in weekly sales. The Wii on the other hand is selling slower than the Gamecube and is one of the slowest selling sequel consoles of all time. How much third party support could Nintendo attract or maintain for games to be released in 2008/2009? What is the likelyhood that the Wii would be able to comeback and win the generation?

The fact of the matter is that you see the PS3 being in a different position largely because you believe that consumers will end up choosing the console with the most theoritical processing power or largest list of features. Generally speaking consumers do not care about these things and rarely take note of them except to justify their purchase after the fact. 2007 and 2008 will not see much in the way of Blu-Ray adoption and by 2009 the PS3 will be dramatically more expensive than a Blu-Ray player and people will stop seeing much value in the PS3 as a gaming machine (because its slow sales will have hurt its game library).

Sony could change the fate of the PS3 but it would require leadership and a willingness to save the console at all costs; if Sony was willing to lose Billions of dollars this year to reduce the price of the PS3 to a more normal level ($300/$400) and buy exclusive games for 2008/2009 they would stand a chance at catching up to the Wii in 2011/2012 ... I don't expect to see this happening.


Only the PS3 isn't selling slower than the GC (and I want to see numbers to prove me wrong Soriku) and it has a huge lineup - much of it third-party exclusive - that hits in about 6 months. Considering that the PS3 with very few exclusive games worth owning is (currently) selling better than the 360 even after the counter-price-cut, I think it is very reasonable to believe that it may well outsell the 360 by a LOT in 2008. Nowhere close to Wii sales, of course, but still, I believe it could very possibly pass the 360 WW sales total by 2010.

I am NOT a PS3 fanboy, by the way -- and I'm not accusing anyone of labeling me as such; I just want to forestall it. I just think that the doom and gloom predictions are heavily based on comparing it to the PS2 and not comparing it to what is necessary for it to become a successful console in its own right -- more successful, perhaps, than the 360. And I don't hate the 360, either -- I am very anxious to finish the story begun in Halo, and very excited about Mass Effect.

There is no way the PS3 can take first this generation. However, it can be a successful, profitable console, in a solid second place, and a good springboard for the PS4. If that happens, the PS3 will have been a success. It is not wildly unlikely that it will do exactly that, which makes it at this time not a failure.


again we are going with the arguement that these games will push the system, when we say this, then the wii and xbox will NOT get the same boost that these games are getting. Sure xbox has alot more good games then the ps3 at the moment, but it has a huge season to look forward too. So if it works for ps3, how can it not for 360 or wii?

To say that great games will only push one system is...... you get the point. I want evidence that these games will push the system, and only the ps3 system.

I do agree it will push the system more then the others will, but will it be enough to close such a huge gap?


So you concede that the PS3 will get a bigger boost than the 360.  I agree that the PS3 will not get the ONLY boost -- in fact, earlier I referred to a "Halo boost" -- and I certainly never denied that all the systems would get permanent sales boosts due to their flagship titles' release.  That would be silly. 

But I digress.  It is agreed that The PS3 will get a bigger boost than the 360.  I say it will get specifically a bigger permanent sales hike.  It is already selling better than the 360.  So I don't see how it is unreasonable to say that it will begin catching up to the 360 sales total in earnest in 2008.  


possibly yes, i have nothing to disagree on except halo boost( its not just one game its MULTIPLE games that is boosting right now) except i hope you dont mean ps3 will catch xbox in 08 cause then ill just say do the math or look at wites sig



                 With regard to Call of Duty 4 having an ultra short single player campaign, I guess it may well have been due to the size limitations of DVD on the XBox 360, one of various limitations multi-platform game designers will have to take into consideration-Mike B   

Proud supporter of all 3 console companys

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Game trailers-Halo 3 only dissapointed the people who wanted to be dissapointed.

Bet with Harvey Birdman that Lost Odyssey will sell more then Blue dragon did.
Final-Fan on 26 August 2007
Lost tears of Kain said:
Final-Fan said:
Lost tears of Kain said:
Final-Fan said:
HappySqurriel said:

I would just like every person who is saying the PS3 isn't selling that badly to sit back and try a mental excercise ...

Imagine that the sales were different and the PS3 was the fastest selling game console in history and just passed the XBox 360 and (on average) outsold the XBox 360 and Wii combined in weekly sales. The Wii on the other hand is selling slower than the Gamecube and is one of the slowest selling sequel consoles of all time. How much third party support could Nintendo attract or maintain for games to be released in 2008/2009? What is the likelyhood that the Wii would be able to comeback and win the generation?

The fact of the matter is that you see the PS3 being in a different position largely because you believe that consumers will end up choosing the console with the most theoritical processing power or largest list of features. Generally speaking consumers do not care about these things and rarely take note of them except to justify their purchase after the fact. 2007 and 2008 will not see much in the way of Blu-Ray adoption and by 2009 the PS3 will be dramatically more expensive than a Blu-Ray player and people will stop seeing much value in the PS3 as a gaming machine (because its slow sales will have hurt its game library).

Sony could change the fate of the PS3 but it would require leadership and a willingness to save the console at all costs; if Sony was willing to lose Billions of dollars this year to reduce the price of the PS3 to a more normal level ($300/$400) and buy exclusive games for 2008/2009 they would stand a chance at catching up to the Wii in 2011/2012 ... I don't expect to see this happening.


Only the PS3 isn't selling slower than the GC (and I want to see numbers to prove me wrong Soriku) and it has a huge lineup - much of it third-party exclusive - that hits in about 6 months. Considering that the PS3 with very few exclusive games worth owning is (currently) selling better than the 360 even after the counter-price-cut, I think it is very reasonable to believe that it may well outsell the 360 by a LOT in 2008. Nowhere close to Wii sales, of course, but still, I believe it could very possibly pass the 360 WW sales total by 2010.

I am NOT a PS3 fanboy, by the way -- and I'm not accusing anyone of labeling me as such; I just want to forestall it. I just think that the doom and gloom predictions are heavily based on comparing it to the PS2 and not comparing it to what is necessary for it to become a successful console in its own right -- more successful, perhaps, than the 360. And I don't hate the 360, either -- I am very anxious to finish the story begun in Halo, and very excited about Mass Effect.

There is no way the PS3 can take first this generation. However, it can be a successful, profitable console, in a solid second place, and a good springboard for the PS4. If that happens, the PS3 will have been a success. It is not wildly unlikely that it will do exactly that, which makes it at this time not a failure.


again we are going with the arguement that these games will push the system, when we say this, then the wii and xbox will NOT get the same boost that these games are getting. Sure xbox has alot more good games then the ps3 at the moment, but it has a huge season to look forward too. So if it works for ps3, how can it not for 360 or wii?

To say that great games will only push one system is...... you get the point. I want evidence that these games will push the system, and only the ps3 system.

I do agree it will push the system more then the others will, but will it be enough to close such a huge gap?


So you concede that the PS3 will get a bigger boost than the 360. I agree that the PS3 will not get the ONLY boost -- in fact, earlier I referred to a "Halo boost" -- and I certainly never denied that all the systems would get permanent sales boosts due to their flagship titles' release. That would be silly.

But I digress. It is agreed that The PS3 will get a bigger boost than the 360. I say it will get specifically a bigger permanent sales hike. It is already selling better than the 360. So I don't see how it is unreasonable to say that it will begin catching up to the 360 sales total in earnest in 2008.


possibly yes, i have nothing to disagree on except halo boost( its not just one game its MULTIPLE games that is boosting right now) except i hope you dont mean ps3 will catch xbox in 08 cause then ill just say do the math or look at wites sig


Of course the PS3 total sales won't catch the 360's in 2008 -- to claim otherwise is madness.  (Or, perhaps, Sparta.)  But I do think it has a shot at doing it by 2010.  It will merely START the process of catching up in 2008. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

leo-j on 26 August 2007
Final-Fan said:
Lost tears of Kain said:

possibly yes, i have nothing to disagree on except halo boost( its not just one game its MULTIPLE games that is boosting right now) except i hope you dont mean ps3 will catch xbox in 08 cause then ill just say do the math or look at wites sig


Of course the PS3 total sales won't catch the 360's in 2008 -- to claim otherwise is madness.  (Or, perhaps, Sparta.)  But I do think it has a shot at doing it by 2010.  It will merely START the process of catching up in 2008. 

The Ps3 can catch up in 2008, that is possible, in fact its likely because of the march price drop and MEGA GAMES coming out. I wouldnt be suprised if it hits 10 million by march next year,



 

mM