KruzeS said: Final-Fan said: Why is Japan the PS3's best market? Oh, you mean the PS2's best market. No, I mean PS3. Because it has a 25% market share there (vs. 15% in America and 18% in Europe). I'm also talking about right now (as I've repeatedly stated all over my posts), not anytime soon. I wholly expect things to improve for the PS3, though not as much as others seem to do: not enough to get it first place, not enough make it second in America, not enough to make it profitable and not enough to give it what I'd call a respectable second place. Simply enough to make the PS3 and 360 combined with their "disexclusives" a quite respectable (and even vital) alternative to the Wii, that's all. But that's my opinion, and load of futurology. Right now, all is not lost for the PS3, but nothing is already won either.

Well put, and a reasonable prediction, although I believe that the PS3 will both turn a (small) profit and gain a (eventual) substantial WW lead on the 360. 

leo-j said: Final-Fan said: Lost tears of Kain said: possibly yes, i have nothing to disagree on except halo boost( its not just one game its MULTIPLE games that is boosting right now) except i hope you dont mean ps3 will catch xbox in 08 cause then ill just say do the math or look at wites sig Of course the PS3 total sales won't catch the 360's in 2008 -- to claim otherwise is madness.  (Or, perhaps, Sparta.)  But I do think it has a shot at doing it by 2010.  It will merely START the process of catching up in 2008.  The Ps3 can catch up in 2008, that is possible, in fact its likely because of the march price drop and MEGA GAMES coming out. I wouldnt be suprised if it hits 10 million by march next year,

Do you actually think about things when you write them?  Do the math, then tell me if its even plausible, much less likely.

leo-j said: Final-Fan said: Lost tears of Kain said: possibly yes, i have nothing to disagree on except halo boost( its not just one game its MULTIPLE games that is boosting right now) except i hope you dont mean ps3 will catch xbox in 08 cause then ill just say do the math or look at wites sig Of course the PS3 total sales won't catch the 360's in 2008 -- to claim otherwise is madness. (Or, perhaps, Sparta.) But I do think it has a shot at doing it by 2010. It will merely START the process of catching up in 2008. The Ps3 can catch up in 2008, that is possible, in fact its likely because of the march price drop and MEGA GAMES coming out. I wouldnt be suprised if it hits 10 million by march next year,

See, this is what I'm talking about. No one respects the arguments I am putting forth about an optimistic future for the PS3 because they associate me with this insanity!

If the PS3's "MEGA GAMES" can really push more than 5 million consoles in 8 months -- when those games don't even COME OUT for a few months yet -- why can't the 360's and Wii's blockbusters coming this fall/winter push them just as far ahead?

Check my signature.

Final-Fan said: leo-j said: Final-Fan said: Lost tears of Kain said: possibly yes, i have nothing to disagree on except halo boost( its not just one game its MULTIPLE games that is boosting right now) except i hope you dont mean ps3 will catch xbox in 08 cause then ill just say do the math or look at wites sig Of course the PS3 total sales won't catch the 360's in 2008 -- to claim otherwise is madness. (Or, perhaps, Sparta.) But I do think it has a shot at doing it by 2010. It will merely START the process of catching up in 2008. The Ps3 can catch up in 2008, that is possible, in fact its likely because of the march price drop and MEGA GAMES coming out. I wouldnt be suprised if it hits 10 million by march next year, See, this is what I'm talking about. No one respects the arguments I am putting forth about an optimistic future for the PS3 because they associate me with this insanity! If the PS3's "MEGA GAMES" can really push more than 5 million consoles in 8 months -- when those games don't even COME OUT for a few months yet -- why can't the 360's and Wii's blockbusters coming this fall/winter push them just as far ahead? Check my signature.

 Didn't you know that the people who want Halo and Mario already bought those systems, but the people who want MGS4 and FFXIII are waiting patiently for the right moment (say, around the month they come out) to buy the system?

If you actually read the financial reports, you'll see that the losses are becoming worse.Which does in fact mean the PS3 is selling worse than the GameCube. Congratulations, Sony.I'm shocked how often I have to point people at my sig... For the PS3 to catch up to the 360 in 2008, it would need to double its current sales (tripling the sales of six weeks ago's average), and continue to sell at that rate for the duration of one full year, with the 360 never getting a boost in sales. With the 360 suddenly seeing former PS3-exclusives and now some new added exclusives of their own, to claim the PS3 will pass the 360 in 2008 is ridiculous.

leo-j said: I wouldnt be suprised if it hits 10 million by march next year,

Which would be quite a failure, according to Sony, given they're expecting at least 5 million more.

Sony fans aren't delusional, guys - Sony is. 

For Sony having the top platform by a HUGE margain the last two generations I think it's selling quite badly. The price, the 1 year headstart for the 360, and the Wii launching at almost the same time are the main reasons it's selling poorly.

i don't think it's selling poorly for the following reasons:

 

1). devs watch sales or to be more specific, corporate overlords of devs watch sales, and what they see is the ps3 consistently matching and sometimes even exceeding xbox sales in the same time frame.... without any games or decent prospects for games. ps3's sold in june when the first good new titles were 3-4 months away and everyone was still playing Resistance and motorstorm. What do you think is going to happen when UT3, haze, uncharted, singstar, socom, etc. hit the streets?

 2). innovation, we have it, the xbox doesn't. What true innovations has the xbox put forward this generation? they showcased UE3 in gears true, but that's pretty much it. meanwhile sony is experimenting with motion sensing, motion capture (heavenly sword), realtime motion capture (playstationeye) and real-world model scanning for ingame areas (killzone 2). These things are actually new and visual improvements from the 'old school', not to mention gear's UE3 showcase has been outdone by the UEps3 in UT3, epic themselves said as much.

3). dev support, we actually got it. see: previously mentioned UEps3, Squarenix's white engine, Crytek's ps3 division ("going deeper then most people imagine", can we say CRYENGINEps3?), konami's work with mgs4, etc, etc.

4). Bungie. after halo 3 dies down, the 360 losses it's HUGE developer to halo wars (i am extremely doubtful of this games success) and their next unnamed project, which we won't see for another year and a half or longer.

5). lackluster 360 lineup for 08 due to 07 focus. how many people, who aren't forum whores, know much of anythign about huxley? alan wake? too human?  microsofts focus on announcing and advertising this year games only does nothing but make the 360's AAA selection look as shallow as a kiddie pool. 2008 will be on us sooner then microsoft seems to think and lots of great titles may be lost to an obscure opening season in the wake of bioshock, halo 3 and mass effect. meanwhile sony has wisely choosen to hype games like mgs4, killzone 2, lbp, etc. now. Does microsoft think that the year of halo 3 marketing did nothing for their system? advance notice builds hype, where's your viral marketers?

Sony's biggest problem right now is their marketing department, they need to get heavenly sword, warhawk, uncharted, R&c,, unreal tournament and haze on television screens this season.

 notice how i've been focusing on the 360? yea, as of now, it is my honest opinion that the ps3 doesn't stand a chance against the wii as long as this trend continues. it's futile to attempt to stem a river with a cork. Besides, i own Nintendo stock, so you could say i have a vested interest in sony aiming no higher then #2. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

JeffLee said: i don't think it's selling poorly for the following reasons:   1). devs watch sales or to be more specific, corporate overlords of devs watch sales, and what they see is the ps3 consistently matching and sometimes even exceeding xbox sales in the same time frame.... without any games or decent prospects for games. ps3's sold in june when the first good new titles were 3-4 months away and everyone was still playing Resistance and motorstorm. What do you think is going to happen when UT3, haze, uncharted, singstar, socom, etc. hit the streets?  2). innovation, we have it, the xbox doesn't. What true innovations has the xbox put forward this generation? they showcased UE3 in gears true, but that's pretty much it. meanwhile sony is experimenting with motion sensing, motion capture (heavenly sword), realtime motion capture (playstationeye) and real-world model scanning for ingame areas (killzone 2). These things are actually new and visual improvements from the 'old school', not to mention gear's UE3 showcase has been outdone by the UEps3 in UT3, epic themselves said as much. 3). dev support, we actually got it. see: previously mentioned UEps3, Squarenix's white engine, Crytek's ps3 division ("going deeper then most people imagine", can we say CRYENGINEps3?), konami's work with mgs4, etc, etc. 4). Bungie. after halo 3 dies down, the 360 losses it's HUGE developer to halo wars (i am extremely doubtful of this games success) and their next unnamed project, which we won't see for another year and a half or longer. 5). lackluster 360 lineup for 08 due to 07 focus. how many people, who aren't forum whores, know much of anythign about huxley? alan wake? too human?  microsofts focus on announcing and advertising this year games only does nothing but make the 360's AAA selection look as shallow as a kiddie pool. 2008 will be on us sooner then microsoft seems to think and lots of great titles may be lost to an obscure opening season in the wake of bioshock, halo 3 and mass effect. meanwhile sony has wisely choosen to hype games like mgs4, killzone 2, lbp, etc. now. Does microsoft think that the year of halo 3 marketing did nothing for their system? advance notice builds hype, where's your viral marketers? Sony's biggest problem right now is their marketing department, they need to get heavenly sword, warhawk, uncharted, R&c,, unreal tournament and haze on television screens this season.  notice how i've been focusing on the 360? yea, as of now, it is my honest opinion that the ps3 doesn't stand a chance against the wii as long as this trend continues. it's futile to attempt to stem a river with a cork. Besides, i own Nintendo stock, so you could say i have a vested interest in sony aiming no higher then #2. ;)

1 If they are selling the same, devs will look at total user base, that and xbox is much easier to make for AND xbox has a huge attachment rate, and devs also look at that and while xbox does have some good games out, its big library will be this fall and again if it does not sell well a fter that you can make the claim that it did not sell good with a good library out.

2 Innovation can appear in any shape and form, including games, look at bioshock? mass effect? games can be just as innovative, also thats all fine and dandy, but not if it doesnt work out well, look at what sixaxis did to lair

Also sometimes you need to keep old innovations (rumble?) cause they are just as good as new

3 Im not going to touch this one because both sides have dev support and you can say xbox doesnt have quite a bit.

4, How can you be doubtful, its made by the people of age of empire, and they have spent alot of time on this game, plz give me a good reason why it will fail

5. Microsoft has stated over and over that they are focusing on this year because of the stellar lineup, while ps3 looks to the future, so yes it does look better, unless microsoft pulls some tricks out and hey who knows but its not like they dont have games coming (too human, cry on, fable2, halo wars, etc). HOw can you say they have wisely chosen to hype those games? Of course they will! those are there best games just like microsoft will hype halo3 mass effect bioshock etc. Also you knowtice that sony didnt hype games like lair etc at e3, its because it got bad reviews just like HS and hopefully it doesnt happen to Warhawk And that is EXACTLY why they are hyping next year because this year is not the best for ps3 games well at least compared to 360 and wii

In some areas you can be right but you need evidence, xbox has all those you listed. We need evidence that the dev support is truely stronger and that halo wars will really fail

In all you really look like a fanboy when you say WE, you should probably not state that you really do =(

JeffLee said: 5). lackluster 360 lineup for 08 due to 07 focus. how many people, who aren't forum whores, know much of anythign about huxley? alan wake? too human? microsofts focus on announcing and advertising this year games only does nothing but make the 360's AAA selection look as shallow as a kiddie pool. 2008 will be on us sooner then microsoft seems to think and lots of great titles may be lost to an obscure opening season in the wake of bioshock, halo 3 and mass effect. meanwhile sony has wisely choosen to hype games like mgs4, killzone 2, lbp, etc. now. Does microsoft think that the year of halo 3 marketing did nothing for their system? advance notice builds hype, where's your viral marketers?

 At the risk of getting caught up in this debate, I wanted to point out that its pretty rare for console companies to focus on games that are more than 6 months away with their PR campaigns.  There are only two reasons people know what is coming in '08 for the PS3, first because there isn't a whole lot going on this year and second because things have been delayed from this year to next year.  Not trying to deflate your entire argument but this point just didn't make much sense to me. I think you will see MS hype their '08 games as we get closer, and I think you will see new games announced for early '08 releases on all the consoles as we get into Oct/Nov timeframe.