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Forums - Sony Discussion - [Blog Article] Is Sony too artsy for its own good?

windbane on 17 January 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.

 

I played Starcraft for 1000s of hours. You couldn't make a platformer on it. Also, sharing games was mainly done by just making a game with a bunch of capital letters in the title.

Edit: Also, Starcraft had replays, but that doesn't mean that Halo 3 having replays (and Skate) isn't innovative, because what other FPS has it? For that matter, not many games have it at all.



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The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009

If you look at the reign of the 3-d platformer Genre, it didn't take after Crash Bandicoot or Jumping flash, they all copied Mario 64. Even to this day they copy Mario 64. Banjo kazooie wasn't a first person jumping puzzle game.

Mario 64 also made a camera in 3d space work. Games like Tomb Raider or Crash Bandicoot just kept a constant locked 3rd person perspective. Mario 64 made the camera a second entity that you could control, rotate zoom in and out, ect ect. A model that's used in numerous games even today.

Mario 64 wasn't the first 3d game and doom wasn't the first FPS but they created so many gameplay elements, technical and stylistic developments that they became the status quo that everyone tried to mimic. And that's why Nintendo is consider innovative. What they do becomes the status quo that everyone tries to mimic or live up to.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.

 

I played Starcraft for 1000s of hours. You couldn't make a platformer on it. Also, sharing games was mainly done by just making a game with a bunch of capital letters in it.

Edit:  Also, Starcraft had replays, but that doesn't mean that Halo 3 having replays (and Skate) isn't innovative, because what other FPS has it?  For that matter, not many games have it at all.

And I've yet to see an RPG or top down exploration based action game in LBP, so what's your point?

 



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

windbane on 17 January 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.

 

I played Starcraft for 1000s of hours. You couldn't make a platformer on it. Also, sharing games was mainly done by just making a game with a bunch of capital letters in it.

Edit: Also, Starcraft had replays, but that doesn't mean that Halo 3 having replays (and Skate) isn't innovative, because what other FPS has it? For that matter, not many games have it at all.

And I've yet to see an RPG or top down exploration based action game in LBP, so what's your point?

 

 

They are different experiences and credit should be given where credit is due. Just because a game has concepts that have been used before in different games doesn't mean the implementation and particular execution isn't innovative and to be praised.

Edit:  Also, you couldn't share pieces of a level in Starcraft like you can in LBP.  You can even use those pieces as a prize in your level.



windbane on 17 January 2009
The_vagabond7 said:
If you look at the reign of the 3-d platformer Genre, it didn't take after Crash Bandicoot or Jumping flash, they all copied Mario 64. Even to this day they copy Mario 64. Banjo kazooie wasn't a first person jumping puzzle game.

Mario 64 also made a camera in 3d space work. Games like Tomb Raider or Crash Bandicoot just kept a constant locked 3rd person perspective. Mario 64 made the camera a second entity that you could control, rotate zoom in and out, ect ect. A model that's used in numerous games even today.

Mario 64 wasn't the first 3d game and doom wasn't the first FPS but they created so many gameplay elements, technical and stylistic developments that they became the status quo that everyone tried to mimic. And that's why Nintendo is consider innovative. What they do becomes the status quo that everyone tries to mimic or live up to.

 

The first FPS was made by the same company that made Doom...they get the credit for the innovation and the evolution and then further evolution with Quake.

Which brings my point about Mario 64:  with LBP, you are saying it's not innovative because it has elements that other games have had, even if the implementation is completely different than anything before it.  You say LBP doesn't get credit for doing something very well because it didn't do it first.  Well, Mario 64 wasn't first, it just refined the genre.  It's implementation of all of it's elements was innovative.  Creating new methods for things is also considered innovation.  You don't have to be the first to use a concept if you use the concept in better ways.



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The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.

 

I played Starcraft for 1000s of hours. You couldn't make a platformer on it. Also, sharing games was mainly done by just making a game with a bunch of capital letters in it.

Edit: Also, Starcraft had replays, but that doesn't mean that Halo 3 having replays (and Skate) isn't innovative, because what other FPS has it? For that matter, not many games have it at all.

And I've yet to see an RPG or top down exploration based action game in LBP, so what's your point?

 

 

They are different experiences and credit should be given where credit is due. Just because a game has concepts that have been used before in different games doesn't mean the implementation and particular execution isn't innovative and to be praised.

Edit:  Also, you couldn't share pieces of a level in Starcraft like you can in LBP.  You can even use those pieces as a prize in your level.
nnovative

adjective
1.  ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced] 
2.  being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original" 

 

So how are you defining innovative exactly?

 

 



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009

Here is a list of all Sony owned franchises from Wikipedia. See how many of them changed gaming.

* Alundra
* Ape Escape
* Arc the Lad
* ATV Offroad Fury
* Beyond the Beyond
* Buzz!
* Calling All Cars!
* Colony Wars
* Cool Boarders
* Dark Cloud
* Destruction Derby
* Dog's Life
* Downhill Domination
* Dropship: United Peace Force
* Echochrome
* Extermination
* EyeToy
* FantaVision
* flOw
* Folklore
* Formula One
* G-Police
* Gangs of London
* Genji
* Getaway, The
* Ghosthunter
* God of War
* Gran Turismo
* Grind Session
* Hardware



* Heavenly Sword
* Home
* Hot Shots Golf
* ICO
* InFamous
* Intelligent Qube
* Jak and Daxter
* Jet Moto
* Jumping Flash!
* Kileak: The DNA Imperative
* Killzone
* Kinetica
* Lair
* Last Guy, The
* Legend of Dragoon, The
* Legend of Legaia
* Lemmings
* LittleBigPlanet
* LocoRoco
* Mark of Kri, The
* MediEvil
* MLB
* Motor Toon Grand Prix
* MotorStorm
* NBA ShootOut
* NCAA Final Four
* NCAA GameBreaker
* NFL GameDay
* NFL Xtreme
* NHL FaceOff



* Okage: Shadow King
* Omega Boost
* PaRappa the Rapper
* Patapon
* Philosoma
* PoPoLoCrois
* Porsche Challenge
* Primal
* Pursuit Force
* Rally Cross
* Ratchet & Clank
* Resistance
* Rogue Galaxy
* Shadow of the Colossus
* SingStar
* Siren
* Sky Odyssey
* Sly Cooper
* SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs
* Syphon Filter
* Turbo Prop Racing
* Twisted Metal
* Uncharted
* War of the Monsters
* Warhawk
* Wipeout
* Wild Arms
* White Knight Chronicles
* "Xtreme" Games



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
If you look at the reign of the 3-d platformer Genre, it didn't take after Crash Bandicoot or Jumping flash, they all copied Mario 64. Even to this day they copy Mario 64. Banjo kazooie wasn't a first person jumping puzzle game.

Mario 64 also made a camera in 3d space work. Games like Tomb Raider or Crash Bandicoot just kept a constant locked 3rd person perspective. Mario 64 made the camera a second entity that you could control, rotate zoom in and out, ect ect. A model that's used in numerous games even today.

Mario 64 wasn't the first 3d game and doom wasn't the first FPS but they created so many gameplay elements, technical and stylistic developments that they became the status quo that everyone tried to mimic. And that's why Nintendo is consider innovative. What they do becomes the status quo that everyone tries to mimic or live up to.

 

The first FPS was made by the same company that made Doom...they get the credit for the innovation and the evolution and then further evolution with Quake.

Which brings my point about Mario 64:  with LBP, you are saying it's not innovative because it has elements that other games have had, even if the implementation is completely different than anything before it.  You say LBP doesn't get credit for doing something very well because it didn't do it first.  Well, Mario 64 wasn't first, it just refined the genre.  It's implementation of all of it's elements was innovative.  Creating new methods for things is also considered innovation.  You don't have to be the first to use a concept if you use the concept in better ways.

 

As for Mario 64 I already explained how that innovated and is still being used as the status quo today.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

windbane on 17 January 2009

 

 

 

The_vagabond7 said:
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.

 

I played Starcraft for 1000s of hours. You couldn't make a platformer on it. Also, sharing games was mainly done by just making a game with a bunch of capital letters in it.

Edit: Also, Starcraft had replays, but that doesn't mean that Halo 3 having replays (and Skate) isn't innovative, because what other FPS has it? For that matter, not many games have it at all.

And I've yet to see an RPG or top down exploration based action game in LBP, so what's your point?

 

 

They are different experiences and credit should be given where credit is due. Just because a game has concepts that have been used before in different games doesn't mean the implementation and particular execution isn't innovative and to be praised.

Edit: Also, you couldn't share pieces of a level in Starcraft like you can in LBP. You can even use those pieces as a prize in your level.
nnovative

adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"

 

So how are you defining innovative exactly?

 

 

 

in⋅no⋅va⋅tion

  <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/I01/I0189600" mce_href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/I01/I0189600" target="_blank"><img src="http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif" mce_src="http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif" border="0" /></a>  [in-uh-vey-shuhn]
–noun

1. something new or different introduced: numerous innovations in the high-school curriculum.
2. the act of innovating; introduction of new things or methods.

 

What game has a level editor for platformers that lets you share bit and pieces of your creations with others and share them with a youtube system?  Please inform me why you are trying to bring down LBP as not innovative.



vlad321 on 17 January 2009
windbane said:

 

 

 

 

The_vagabond7 said:
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
windbane said:
The_vagabond7 said:
There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.

 

I played Starcraft for 1000s of hours. You couldn't make a platformer on it. Also, sharing games was mainly done by just making a game with a bunch of capital letters in it.

Edit: Also, Starcraft had replays, but that doesn't mean that Halo 3 having replays (and Skate) isn't innovative, because what other FPS has it? For that matter, not many games have it at all.

And I've yet to see an RPG or top down exploration based action game in LBP, so what's your point?

 

 

They are different experiences and credit should be given where credit is due. Just because a game has concepts that have been used before in different games doesn't mean the implementation and particular execution isn't innovative and to be praised.

Edit: Also, you couldn't share pieces of a level in Starcraft like you can in LBP. You can even use those pieces as a prize in your level.
nnovative

adjective
1. ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced]
2. being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original"

 

So how are you defining innovative exactly?

 

 

 

in⋅no⋅va⋅tion

  <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/I01/I0189600" mce_href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/I01/I0189600" target="_blank"><img src="http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif" mce_src="http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif" border="0" /></a>  [in-uh-vey-shuhn]
–noun

1. something new or different introduced: numerous innovations in the high-school curriculum.
2. the act of innovating; introduction of new things or methods.

 

What game has a level editor for platformers that lets you share bit and pieces of your creations with others and share them with a youtube system?  Please inform me why you are trying to bring down LBP as not innovative.

 

Because it's not? Spore did the EXACT same thing. It's system of sharing was even announced before LBP was probably being designed.... Also level editors? Please... Excitebike and Battle City had that back in the 80s.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835