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Forums - Sony Discussion - [Blog Article] Is Sony too artsy for its own good?

BTFeather55 on 16 January 2009
HappySqurriel said:
BTFeather55 said:
HappySqurriel said:
BTFeather55 said:
Sony has done the same with Flow, Flower, Pixel Junk Eden, Little Big Planet, and The Eye of Judgement.

 

Flow was a flash game that became popular enough to attract the attention of Sony (ie, Sony had nothing to do with it ever being created) and Flower is sort-of a sequel to it where the aquatic worm becomes a flower petal ...

Little Big Planet is a fairly typical 2.5D platformer that is based around a physics simulation and a level editor ... Level editors have been used in a ton of games since the NES, and physics simulations have been growing in popularity since the late 1990s.

From my understanding, the Eye of Judgement is a card game similar to what Nintendo produced 100 years ago with the excpetion that the eye toy scans the cards ...

 

 

Yeah, but in The Eye of Judgement the characters on the cards come to life on your tv screen like a real version of the animated Yu-Gi-Oh or Dual Masters shows and that is a concept that has never been realized in a game before.

 

I'm not saying these games are not cool, or that they are not breaking new ground, just they are not as inovative as they are hyped to being ...

 

     And I would say the same thing about Wii Sports, Wii Music, Wii Play, Brain Training, Nintendogs, and Wii Fit.

 



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Electro General on 17 January 2009
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher?  Play games much?  Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles.  In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone.  DDR is dance, not music.  Crash Bandicoot was demonstrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh?  Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some.  Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration.  Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

So do you assume that no one else would have published the games if Sony didn't?

Regardless, arguing that Sony is innovative because they've published unique 3rd party titles is a poor attempt at making them seem more innovative then they really are.



Zlejedi on 17 January 2009
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher? Play games much? Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles. In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is not the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone. DDR is dance, not music. Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh? Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some. Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration. Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

Brain Training, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, and Electroplanktin ...

 

Is this supposed to be a joke ? Those aren't even proper games.

 

 



PROUD MEMBER OF THE PSP RPG FAN CLUB

burgerstein on 17 January 2009

Groucho said:
Mario 64 doesn't predate Crash, bud.  It made innovations, but not any moreso than Crash did.  And Perfect Dark?  Exactly what genre do you think Perfect Dark defined?  

 Dude, are you mental? I wouldn't even consider Crash to have 3D gameplay compared to Super Mario 64, regardless of release date, Crash was just 2D platforming with a z axis thrown in. SM64 was pretty much the first real 3D platformer. Seriously, play Crash 1 then try Super Mario 64, and tell me which one feels more like a 2D platformer. It's Crash Bandicoot. It was the logical extension of platform games, Mario gave us something different.



"Now, a fun game should always be easy to understand - you should be able to take one look at it and know what you have to do straight away. It should be so well constructed that you can tell at a glance what your goal is and, even if you don’t succeed, you’ll blame yourself rather than the game. Moreover, the people standing around watching the game have also got to be able to enjoy it." - Shiggy

A Koopa's Revenge II gameplay video

BTFeather55 on 17 January 2009
burgerstein said:

Groucho said:
Mario 64 doesn't predate Crash, bud.  It made innovations, but not any moreso than Crash did.  And Perfect Dark?  Exactly what genre do you think Perfect Dark defined?  

 Dude, are you mental? I wouldn't even consider Crash to have 3D gameplay compared to Super Mario 64, regardless of release date, Crash was just 2D platforming with a z axis thrown in. SM64 was pretty much the first real 3D platformer. Seriously, play Crash 1 then try Super Mario 64, and tell me which one feels more like a 2D platformer. It's Crash Bandicoot. It was the logical extension of platform games, Mario gave us something different.

 

      Jumping Flash! and Tomb Raider were out before Mario 64.



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The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009

This topic became a joke as soon as somebody said Crash Bandicoot was the foundation the modern platformer. Anybody that would claim that has no valid opinion in a discussion of who innovated what. That is so much facepalm, it's not even comprehensible. Where's a facepalm Jpeg...

 



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

Electro General on 17 January 2009
BTFeather55 said:
burgerstein said:

Groucho said:
Mario 64 doesn't predate Crash, bud.  It made innovations, but not any moreso than Crash did.  And Perfect Dark?  Exactly what genre do you think Perfect Dark defined?  

 Dude, are you mental? I wouldn't even consider Crash to have 3D gameplay compared to Super Mario 64, regardless of release date, Crash was just 2D platforming with a z axis thrown in. SM64 was pretty much the first real 3D platformer. Seriously, play Crash 1 then try Super Mario 64, and tell me which one feels more like a 2D platformer. It's Crash Bandicoot. It was the logical extension of platform games, Mario gave us something different.

 

      Jumping Flash! and Tomb Raider were out before Mario 64.

Tomb raider was originally a sega saturn exclusive.

 



windbane on 17 January 2009
vlad321 said:
Groucho said:
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher? Play games much? Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles. In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is not the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone. DDR is dance, not music. Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh? Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some. Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration. Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

Brain Training, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, and Electroplanktin ...

 

Riiight. Stellar compared to even recent Sony games like LBP, Flow, Pixeljunk Eden, etc. The Pets genre and WiiFit are pretty innovative from a certain perspective, but throwing the others in there is pushin it.

 

I'm sorry did you call LBP innovative? Maybe from a console standpoint, but from an overall gamign standpoint it's something that has existed for years and years. Same with Flow, that concept has been the ource for MANY Java games.

 

 

really, now?  tell me a game on PC that has a level editor like LBP and as robust a game sharing system.



windbane on 17 January 2009
Electro General said:
BTFeather55 said:
burgerstein said:

Groucho said:
Mario 64 doesn't predate Crash, bud. It made innovations, but not any moreso than Crash did. And Perfect Dark? Exactly what genre do you think Perfect Dark defined?

Dude, are you mental? I wouldn't even consider Crash to have 3D gameplay compared to Super Mario 64, regardless of release date, Crash was just 2D platforming with a z axis thrown in. SM64 was pretty much the first real 3D platformer. Seriously, play Crash 1 then try Super Mario 64, and tell me which one feels more like a 2D platformer. It's Crash Bandicoot. It was the logical extension of platform games, Mario gave us something different.

 

Jumping Flash! and Tomb Raider were out before Mario 64.

Tomb raider was originally a sega saturn exclusive.

 

 

Crash was definitely a 3-D platformer.  Just because the path was narrow didn't mean you couldn't move on x, y, and z axis.  But yeah, Mario 64 came out first.

However, Jumping Flash definitely came out before Mario 64.  It was one of my favorite PS1 games early on.

I'd forgotten that Tomb Raider was on the Saturn first.  That's hilarious...



The_vagabond7 on 17 January 2009

There are a billion and one games with level editors many much easier to use than LBPs, and with much greater potential. I wouldn't even know where to start a list. Morrowind had huge level editing tools, Starcraft had people making RPGs, Tower defense games, action quests, on and on, and it was an RTS with editing tools and Battlenet to share everything. I've said time and time again, LBP big innovation was that it was marketed to hell and back.

Anybody that thinks LBP did something revolutionary has never been a PC gamer, or they have been and are just wearing Sony goggles. It's marketed well but it didn't do anything that hasn't been done a hundred times before, just marketed well. And doing something pretty good that's been done many many times before doesn't count as innovation. If it is then suddenly there are a hell of alot of super innovative games.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.