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Forums - Sony Discussion - [Blog Article] Is Sony too artsy for its own good?

Groucho on 16 January 2009
vlad321 said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher?  Play games much?  Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles.  In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone.  DDR is dance, not music.  Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh?  Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some.  Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration.  Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

 

You mean besides like... Mario 64? Or Perfect Dark? Which DEFINED the genres.

Mario 64 doesn't predate Crash, bud.  It made innovations, but not any moreso than Crash did.  And Perfect Dark?  Exactly what genre do you think Perfect Dark defined?

 



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HappySqurriel on 16 January 2009
Groucho said:
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher? Play games much? Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles. In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is not the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone. DDR is dance, not music. Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh? Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some. Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration. Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

Brain Training, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, and Electroplanktin ...

 

Riiight. Stellar compared to even recent Sony games like LBP, Flow, Pixeljunk Eden, etc. The Pets genre and WiiFit are pretty innovative from a certain perspective, but throwing the others in there is pushin it.

 

 

So taking a well established genre and making a game using a physics simulation is inovative, but creating whole new genres (Brain Training, Nintendogs, Wii Fit) or breaking all conventions within an existing genre (electroplanktin and Wii Music) isn't?



BTFeather55 on 16 January 2009

Sony has done the same with Flow, Flower, Pixel Junk Eden, Little Big Planet, and The Eye of Judgement.



Heavens to Murgatoids.

Groucho on 16 January 2009
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher? Play games much? Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles. In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is not the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone. DDR is dance, not music. Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh? Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some. Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration. Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

Brain Training, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, and Electroplanktin ...

 

Riiight. Stellar compared to even recent Sony games like LBP, Flow, Pixeljunk Eden, etc. The Pets genre and WiiFit are pretty innovative from a certain perspective, but throwing the others in there is pushin it.

 

 

So taking a well established genre and making a game using a physics simulation is inovative, but creating whole new genres (Brain Training, Nintendogs, Wii Fit) or breaking all conventions within an existing genre (electroplanktin and Wii Music) isn't?

As I stated, the pets genre and WiiFit are certainly innovative.  Brain Age, WiiMusic, Elecktroplanktin... not even close.  Does Microsoft get points for bringing solitaire to the masses with Windows, in your book?  Brain Age was predated by PC/Mac puzzle games dating back into the 80s.  Nintendo has some innovation, but we're comparing it to Sony here.  I'm saying that Sony is ahead in this regard, and by no small measure.

You hate the idea of it?  Okay.  Not a problem for me.



ultraslick on 16 January 2009

This article is so absolutely correct in every way. Wow. You could argue Sony's efforts to extend the video game market are just as strong as Nintendo's. Except they are in opposite directions.

Sony wants to entice HD nuts, people with money, adults, gamers.

Nintendo is after kids and people who have never played games before, because they may be afraid of analog sticks.

but I guess you could argue that both companies are after every demographic.. so whatever.

What the hell is electroplanktin???



̶3̶R̶D̶   2ND! Place has never been so sweet.


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HappySqurriel on 16 January 2009
BTFeather55 said:
Sony has done the same with Flow, Flower, Pixel Junk Eden, Little Big Planet, and The Eye of Judgement.

 

Flow was a flash game that became popular enough to attract the attention of Sony (ie, Sony had nothing to do with it ever being created) and Flower is sort-of a sequel to it where the aquatic worm becomes a flower petal ...

Little Big Planet is a fairly typical 2.5D platformer that is based around a physics simulation and a level editor ... Level editors have been used in a ton of games since the NES, and physics simulations have been growing in popularity since the late 1990s.

From my understanding, the Eye of Judgement is a card game similar to what Nintendo produced 100 years ago with the excpetion that the eye toy scans the cards ...

 



HappySqurriel on 16 January 2009
Groucho said:
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
HappySqurriel said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:
Groucho said:

If I had to compare all of the publishers in the industry for originality, Sony would definately be on top.

If you're looking to define "artsy" -- that's really the only logical place to go, so... hate it all you want, and enjoy your Cadbury or Perugina chocolate bar too (pretend its "the good stuff", if you like). Sony innovates in PS3 software more than the rest, and has throughout their history.

Can you provide some examples?

Umm.. go through the database here and use "Sony" as the publisher? Play games much? Start with the entire music/ rhythm genre (Parappa, Umjamer Lammy, Harmonix's "pre Guitar Hero" game-- I forget the name) and go from there to modern 3D platform foundations like Crash Bandicoot, the first MMOFPS (Planetside), one of the first big MMORPGs (EverQuest), revitalizing the Action genre with God of War, etc.

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles. In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is not the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone. DDR is dance, not music. Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh? Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some. Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration. Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

Brain Training, Wii Music, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, and Electroplanktin ...

 

Riiight. Stellar compared to even recent Sony games like LBP, Flow, Pixeljunk Eden, etc. The Pets genre and WiiFit are pretty innovative from a certain perspective, but throwing the others in there is pushin it.

 

 

So taking a well established genre and making a game using a physics simulation is inovative, but creating whole new genres (Brain Training, Nintendogs, Wii Fit) or breaking all conventions within an existing genre (electroplanktin and Wii Music) isn't?

As I stated, the pets genre and WiiFit are certainly innovative. Brain Age, WiiMusic, Elecktroplanktin... not even close. Does Microsoft get points for bringing solitaire to the masses with Windows, in your book? Brain Age was predated by PC/Mac puzzle games dating back into the 80s. Nintendo has some innovation, but we're comparing it to Sony here. I'm saying that Sony is ahead in this regard, and by no small measure.

You hate the idea of it? Okay. Not a problem for me.

 

Name a game that is like Electroplanktin or Wii Music?

Name a game like Brain Training that was released before Brain Training?



vlad321 on 16 January 2009
Groucho said:
vlad321 said:
Groucho said:
saicho said:

Last time I checked Sony didn't develope Parapa The Rapper or Unjammer Jammy... and there was Guitar Freak/Drumania/Beatmania/DDR series from Konami for music games. I will take it that you are joking when you say Crash Bandicoot is modern 3D platform foundations.

I can respect your opinion that you think Sony has the most originality but I don't think you provided good examples on why Sony is so innovative.

Sony published those titles.  In other words, they took a chance that those "artsy" games would succeed, and denying that Amplitude is the forerunner of the majority of the modern music genre is downright outrageous, again published by Sony, and Sony alone.  DDR is dance, not music.  Crash Bandicoot was demostrated on the PS1 before the console even hit store shelves -- you don't think its a forerunner of the modern incarnation of 3D platformers, eh?  Once you step out of being in denial, you might have the chance to realize that Sony, as both a publisher and developer, is incredibly innovative -- much moreso than its modern day competition, let alone in the past.

How about we turn the tables some.  Name some MS and Nintendo innovative games (not control schemes) of the past 5 years, that didn't use an obvious source of inspiration.  Name some innovative MS games *ever*, or see if you can name some Nintendo innovators from later than 1990.

 

 

You mean besides like... Mario 64? Or Perfect Dark? Which DEFINED the genres.

Mario 64 doesn't predate Crash, bud.  It made innovations, but not any moreso than Crash did.  And Perfect Dark?  Exactly what genre do you think Perfect Dark defined?

 

 

Uhhhhh.... Mario 64 came out in June, Crash in August? Did you get your months mixed up? Also I'd define that as the FPS on a console. If you wanna count that.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

BTFeather55 on 16 January 2009
HappySqurriel said:
BTFeather55 said:
Sony has done the same with Flow, Flower, Pixel Junk Eden, Little Big Planet, and The Eye of Judgement.

 

Flow was a flash game that became popular enough to attract the attention of Sony (ie, Sony had nothing to do with it ever being created) and Flower is sort-of a sequel to it where the aquatic worm becomes a flower petal ...

Little Big Planet is a fairly typical 2.5D platformer that is based around a physics simulation and a level editor ... Level editors have been used in a ton of games since the NES, and physics simulations have been growing in popularity since the late 1990s.

From my understanding, the Eye of Judgement is a card game similar to what Nintendo produced 100 years ago with the excpetion that the eye toy scans the cards ...

 

 

      Yeah, but in The Eye of Judgement the characters on the cards come to life on your tv screen like a real version of the animated Yu-Gi-Oh or Dual Masters shows and that is a concept that has never been realized in a game before.

 



Heavens to Murgatoids.

HappySqurriel on 16 January 2009
BTFeather55 said:
HappySqurriel said:
BTFeather55 said:
Sony has done the same with Flow, Flower, Pixel Junk Eden, Little Big Planet, and The Eye of Judgement.

 

Flow was a flash game that became popular enough to attract the attention of Sony (ie, Sony had nothing to do with it ever being created) and Flower is sort-of a sequel to it where the aquatic worm becomes a flower petal ...

Little Big Planet is a fairly typical 2.5D platformer that is based around a physics simulation and a level editor ... Level editors have been used in a ton of games since the NES, and physics simulations have been growing in popularity since the late 1990s.

From my understanding, the Eye of Judgement is a card game similar to what Nintendo produced 100 years ago with the excpetion that the eye toy scans the cards ...

 

 

Yeah, but in The Eye of Judgement the characters on the cards come to life on your tv screen like a real version of the animated Yu-Gi-Oh or Dual Masters shows and that is a concept that has never been realized in a game before.

 

I'm not saying these games are not cool, or that they are not breaking new ground, just they are not as inovative as they are hyped to being ...