shams said:
Care to post some facts or links? Show me a GC game (esp. a 1st-gen gamecube title) that looks better than one of the titles I have quoted - picking only the best screenshots/movies from anyone. How many GC titles do you own / have finished by the way? I own around 30, and have finished most of them. FF:CC was the prettiest GC title in my opinion. ... (PS - the thread is about "Why Wii games look so bad" - not - "Why Wii gfx are so much better than GC gfx"...)
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You do realize that the game doesn't look that good while playing it ... right? And you also realize that those are target renders and don't appear in the game at all right? Go grab a copy of Rogue Squadron for the Cube if you don't already have it and play the game in 480p on your Wii... I've yet to see any Wii game come close to that visually and yes like I said I own 2 of the games you talked about and played Red Steel. Red Steel looked very much like Geist to me, which isn't a bad thing... but not exactly great.
Prepare for termination! It is the only logical thing to do, for I am only loyal to Megatron.
| albionus said: @sprl Getting a little too long to directly quote. We've both made our points so not too much more to add. I'll just say first, we had no 3rd party games to look at when the Wii launched? Really? 18 3rd party games were released at launch with another 12 soon following. In addition to that videos of the final builds were availible for at least a month prior to launch. That's how it was possible to ponder why they looked so bad last November. Other than that the math issue I've already argued before and yes I am in the Electrical and Computer Engineering program at OSU so I am aware of what math CSE majors take (the same as me, actually less since I'm in the Nuclear Engineering and Economics programs as well). I am also well aware of the grades they get in those classes. Anyways, I'll just say that you seem to be grossly overestimating the ability of average workers which I've thus far found to be less than encouraging (as the article about devs struggling with the math further showed). That's about all that can be said about the issue since it's just an idea that I'm basing on a low view of average workers that has often worked in the past and you have a differring idea based on a higher opinion. Not much possibility of working around that I suspect. |
On the bolded part: How many of those were veteran teams that are known for putting out stunning games and not just rookie teams who were probably learning the architecture not just the specific setup? This stuff all fits together like a puzzle you seem to be looking at just one piece at a time. The timelines don't mesh for the big teams to be on the projects then, and the rookies are going to be expected to produce lower quality...so I just don't see how there was much to ponder at the time. Unless I read it wrong you were basically saying "At launch I was pondering why Wii games look so bad.". And the answer is simple, first gen products, little 3rd party support, and smaller budgets. I just didn't see much to ponder, it seems like the sort of thing you might think about for half a sec and go "Oh ..well yeah that makes perfect sense." But even then I wouldn't say they have been downright horrible, just not all they could/should be.
As for the programmers, I agree that this boils down to both of us having had different experiences with peers and coworkers, I have met my fair share of crappy programmers but ultimately they don't last too long. It sounds like you have had the opposite experience. So yeah, I could be overestimating, but you could just as easily be underestimating. 
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| To Each Man, Responsibility |
| leo-j said: you forgot starfox :P |
except a Star Fox game for the Wii isn't confirmed yet. I hope one will! ^_^
and Mario Kart Wii looks good too. Not the best looking game, but MKW does looks nice.
| leo-j said: @shams, Ive seen ps2 games handle graphics like those images above. |
Which PS2 games? Post a screenshot of one and we'll see.
Anyway, those shots of Red Steel do not represent the actual game, which looks and runs pretty poorly.
Things will improve as developers put more effort into their games, at least I hope so.
Leo-J's credibility isn't exactly stellar, and you'll be waiting a long time if you actually plan on him backing up anything he says.
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Sorry guys, I know there is a ps2 game that looks like this and god of war comes to mind, but I cant find the screen Im looking for..these should be interesting:
DarkNight_DS said:
I have 2 of the games you listed, Sonic and Rayman and have played Red Steel. None of these games come close to some of the best work done on the cube sadly. Factor 5 made some great looking games on the Wii, as did Rare, Capcom, Sega and Nintendo. For example, look at F-Zero GC, Metroid Prime, Star Wars Rogue Squadron, Star Fox Adventures, Pikmin etc. These games look great and while playing Wii games you may forget these games existed but they did and they do look much better. Wii devs have been either lazy thus far when developing graphics or have been rushing etc to provide us what we have. Sonic looks at best like a late GC game, Rayman looks like a run of the mill GC game. Redsteel looks horrible compared to some of the better shooters on the GC. I realize better looking games are on the way and I'm not complaining but I will admit that something hasn't been right with some Wii games and visuals. Metroid Prime 3 should look pretty damn good as the other 2 are still amazing looking so that will hopefully start a trend towards better looking games. |
I agree with you there (bolded) - but we are talking first-gen Wii vrs "best GC".
Factor-5 are the exception, but in my opinion they will always be a gfx tech house - and know how to properly utilise bump-mapping and other techniques.
Starfox was done by Rare (developed over many, many years), had some serious frame rate issues - and lovely fur shading. Rare is another company that seem to put a lot into gfx tech.
Pikmin 1/2 look gorgeous, and I can't wait to see how Pikmin looks on the Wii.
...
I am only trying to say that people are being bitchy. Whereas a lot of early Wii games look crap (obvious ports), if you compare GC titles out in the first 9 months with Wii titles out in the first 9 months, you'll find better gfx on the Wii.
I stick to me statement about the games I made. I can't find the Red Steel screenshots I am after, but parts of the game looked really gorgeous to me - and far beyond anything I had seen on the GC.
http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2006/11/17/red-steel-screenshot-madness/
(and these are ALL in-game - not target renders)
(not a render - in game shot...)
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There is another way to look at it.
Why make the graphics better if the average customer doesnt care about the graphics beyond a certain point?
The best games historically always had superior gameplay rather than revolutionary graphics so it would make sense that instead of worrying about something most people dont care for, spend that time and money on gameplay instead. I do believe that this is the lesson that should be learned from the Wii unfortunately some devs are just there to milk the Wii and dont bother spending more on gameplay at all. To me, spending most of your time on graphics is just a tactic to hide how bad a game really is underneath. Its like a Jaguar with a Pinto engine. Id rather have a Jaguar engine in a Pinto body.
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