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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Have Western RPGs supplanted JRPGs?

alekth on 06 January 2009

That pretty much sums it up for me as well. There might be blurred boundaries in some elements, in some games, to me they remain two genres. Especially with the shooter overtones for some of the titles.

Wouldn't really place the decisive factor for me on the battle systems, turn-based or not doesn't matter, neither does 2D or 3D. I wouldn't want character designs and story progression to turn into WRPG-style just to sell more in the west.

I'm not too worried about JRPGs being made, maybe a bit more worried about localisation (which has always been sort of problematic) for less known franchises.



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BrayanA on 06 January 2009

WRPGs > JRPGs, cos gameplay > gamestory IMO



Words Of Wisdom on 06 January 2009
Shadow)OS said:

WRPG's are just Shooter/Action games. The main difference is that your character is nameless and you have a few extra options to tinker with, rather than being named "Master Chief" or "Marcus". Because that way you aren't just controlling some bad ass, YOU ARE THE BAD ASS ZOMG

Fallout? Shooter. Mass Effect? Shooter. Too Human? Shooter.

Why is this a pattern? Lets take a look at where most WRPG's reside: Xbox 360. Hmmmmmmm...

I don't care what culture makes the RPG, as long as they are the turn based or real-time formulas. Since the Japanese tend to to make the more classic RPG's, I buy those games more.


Let me make it clear: I really don't feel comfortable calling most WRPG's an RPG. There are exceptions like Oblivion and Fable that I would gladly call a WRPG, but most "WRPG"'s are just shooter games in my eyes.

This post is ignorant on a massive scale.  The platform on which most WRPGs reside is most definitely the PC.  Claiming that "WRPGs are just Shooter/Action games" makes it clear that you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

Try playing anything pre-Mass Effect from Bioware, anything by Black Isle or Troika or Obsidian to know what I mean.

And for added emphasis:

Words Of Wisdom said:
Having people think of Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 as definitive WRPGs is depressing.

It's like holding up Rumble Roses XXX as the definitive game in the fighting genre.

 

And also...

emilie autumn said:
we still haven't had a FF/KH/DQ this gen so theres no way saying that the WRPG has suplanted the JRPG and also persona 4 proves that argument wrong

 

All P4 proves is that a developer can make an anime, put a battle system in the middle of it, and people will eat it up.



shio on 06 January 2009

Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a WRPG nut and I think that JRPGs are vastly inferior. JRPGs are suffering from the lack of evolution. They are still developed with juvenile stories, archaic dialogue systems, shallow combat mechanics, etc... they need to change things.

I have always said that they needed to copy from WPRGs, but they could aso take elements from Adventure games, and that means:
- Have more mature and better written stories
- Implement a dialogue system directly into the story (even if it doesn't impact the story, it would still give the illusion of choice and more interactivity)
- Have more non-combat gameplay

I think it would do nicely, and it would still alow to keep a linear storytelling.



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badgenome on 06 January 2009
shio said:
Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a WRPG nut and I think that JRPGs are vastly inferior. JRPGs are suffering from the lack of evolution. They are still developed with juvenile stories, archaic dialogue systems, shallow combat mechanics, etc... they need to change things.

I have always said that they needed to copy from WPRGs, but they could aso take elements from Adventure games, and that means:
- Have more mature and better written stories
- Implement a dialogue system directly into the story (even if it doesn't impact the story, it would still give the illusion of choice and more interactivity)
- Have more non-combat gameplay

I think it would do nicely, and it would still alow to keep a linear storytelling.

Agreed, for sure. They have yet to evolve much past the old Ultima games, in which I would amuse my eight-year-old self by telling Lord British "no" 1000000 times.



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Words Of Wisdom on 06 January 2009
badgenome said:
shio said:
Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a WRPG nut and I think that JRPGs are vastly inferior. JRPGs are suffering from the lack of evolution. They are still developed with juvenile stories, archaic dialogue systems, shallow combat mechanics, etc... they need to change things.

I have always said that they needed to copy from WPRGs, but they could aso take elements from Adventure games, and that means:
- Have more mature and better written stories
- Implement a dialogue system directly into the story (even if it doesn't impact the story, it would still give the illusion of choice and more interactivity)
- Have more non-combat gameplay

I think it would do nicely, and it would still alow to keep a linear storytelling.

Agreed, for sure. They have yet to evolve much past the old Ultima games, in which I would amuse my eight-year-old self by telling Lord British "no" 1000000 times.

Actually this is one element that Persona 4 has that bothers me quite a bit.

I hate meaningless dialog choices.  You get a meaningless dialog choice, a single unique response from a character, and then the game goes back to the normal dialog path.  A lot of the time the dialog has no effect on anything and is just wasting my time.

Give me a game like Arcanum where my dialog choices actually meant something significant or at least got me more than a single line of dialog in response.

 



Deneidez on 06 January 2009
nbadgenome said:
shio said:
Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a WRPG nut and I think that JRPGs are vastly inferior. JRPGs are suffering from the lack of evolution. They are still developed with juvenile stories, archaic dialogue systems, shallow combat mechanics, etc... they need to change things.

I have always said that they needed to copy from WPRGs, but they could aso take elements from Adventure games, and that means:
- Have more mature and better written stories
- Implement a dialogue system directly into the story (even if it doesn't impact the story, it would still give the illusion of choice and more interactivity)
- Have more non-combat gameplay

I think it would do nicely, and it would still alow to keep a linear storytelling.

Agreed, for sure. They have yet to evolve much past the old Ultima games, in which I would amuse my eight-year-old self by telling Lord British "no" 1000000 times.

+ even new wrpgs have less interactivity than ultima 7 for example.

The gameworld is renowned for its interactivity: virtually everything not nailed to the ground can be moved, taken, or interacted with in some fashion. It is possible, for instance, to bake bread, to forge weapons, to milk cows, to play musical instruments, and even to change a baby's swaddling. The Avatar and his companions will complain of hunger pains and severe thirst, and will even die if these matters are not attended to properly. If they come across a disgusting or gruesome scene, they may groan and vomit.  The game is also highly nonlinear; although there is a linear storyline, this is countered by the ability to explore the map in any order when coupled with the many sub-quests, including one that parodies Star Trek: the Next Generation

(Source wikipedia)

It doesn't stop there. For example everyone in the game world has own schedules. If you try to get into bakery in the middle of night you won't get there, because baker is in nearest pub drinking or at home sleeping and doors are closed. Etc...



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badgenome on 06 January 2009
Deneidez said:
badgenome said:
shio said:
Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a WRPG nut and I think that JRPGs are vastly inferior. JRPGs are suffering from the lack of evolution. They are still developed with juvenile stories, archaic dialogue systems, shallow combat mechanics, etc... they need to change things.

I have always said that they needed to copy from WPRGs, but they could aso take elements from Adventure games, and that means:
- Have more mature and better written stories
- Implement a dialogue system directly into the story (even if it doesn't impact the story, it would still give the illusion of choice and more interactivity)
- Have more non-combat gameplay

I think it would do nicely, and it would still alow to keep a linear storytelling.

Agreed, for sure. They have yet to evolve much past the old Ultima games, in which I would amuse my eight-year-old self by telling Lord British "no" 1000000 times.

+ even new wrpgs have less interactivity than ultima 7 for example.

The gameworld is renowned for its interactivity: virtually everything not nailed to the ground can be moved, taken, or interacted with in some fashion. It is possible, for instance, to bake bread, to forge weapons, to milk cows, to play musical instruments, and even to change a baby's swaddling. The Avatar and his companions will complain of hunger pains and severe thirst, and will even die if these matters are not attended to properly. If they come across a disgusting or gruesome scene, they may groan and vomit. The game is also highly nonlinear; although there is a linear storyline, this is countered by the ability to explore the map in any order when coupled with the many sub-quests, including one that parodies Star Trek: the Next Generation[4]

It doesn't stop there. For example everyone in the game world has own schedules. If you try to get into bakery in the middle of night you won't get there, because baker is in nearest pub drinking or at home sleeping and doors are closed. Etc...

VI was much the same, though some of those are definitely new. Shamefully, I've never played VII. But my interest is piqued!

I guess I should clarify that I was talking about Exodus and Quest of the Avatar. Specifically the NES versions, as I'm not sure how castrated those were compared to the PC versions.

 



shio on 06 January 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
badgenome said:
shio said:
Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a WRPG nut and I think that JRPGs are vastly inferior. JRPGs are suffering from the lack of evolution. They are still developed with juvenile stories, archaic dialogue systems, shallow combat mechanics, etc... they need to change things.

I have always said that they needed to copy from WPRGs, but they could aso take elements from Adventure games, and that means:
- Have more mature and better written stories
- Implement a dialogue system directly into the story (even if it doesn't impact the story, it would still give the illusion of choice and more interactivity)
- Have more non-combat gameplay

I think it would do nicely, and it would still alow to keep a linear storytelling.

Agreed, for sure. They have yet to evolve much past the old Ultima games, in which I would amuse my eight-year-old self by telling Lord British "no" 1000000 times.

Actually this is one element that Persona 4 has that bothers me quite a bit.

I hate meaningless dialog choices.  You get a meaningless dialog choice, a single unique response from a character, and then the game goes back to the normal dialog path.  A lot of the time the dialog has no effect on anything and is just wasting my time.

Give me a game like Arcanum where my dialog choices actually meant something significant or at least got me more than a single line of dialog in response.

 

Blame the developers - having single choices on dialogues is just poor design. That is actually one of the things I hate most from Japanese Adventure games and Interactive novels: they often gave single choices or just stopped the story for pointless/uniteresting dialogue choices, often a consequence from poor writting.

Japanese developers should look at a few awesome games like Grim Fandango or Deus Ex, where the writing quality and dialogue systems makes the games shine.

 



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PS360ForTheWin on 06 January 2009

dunno, i love Fable 1 and 2, i havently really played many JRPGs