Those are some terrible examples. Nintendo has already got a game where level design is shared freely and openly with-in the community live right now. It would not require a massive amount of change to turn Brawl's level a day net code into an open system where it is shared. All the levels would have to be stored in a database so it would simply be a matter of allowing you to access them rather than restrict you from them. If Nintendo's system can handle it then I have to imagine you would agree any online system could handle it. The level sharing part of the game is not complex or hard to pull off in the least. It isn't even part of what makes the game innovative quite honestly (but is part of what makes it viable).

 Now for your second point. If you are arguing that physics calculations make it a different game I have yet another example of where the Wii has the best selling high profile third party game. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed uses a completely different physics engine on the Wii. Completely different game beause of physics clearly does not hold water.

 Please bring this laundry list out because I am bored at work and would enjoy picking them apart piece by piece. Truely revolutionary games that require a whole new system are extremely rare. If you are not creating a new genre of game (and Little Big Planet certainly is not a new genre) then there is a very small chance that the game could not have been done before. This does not diminish the game in the least however. Half-life, Okami, Shadow of the Colossos, Ikaruga, Super Mario Galaxy and a laundry list of other games are absolute masterpieces and amazing additions to gaming while not requiring the hardware they specifically use.

the title of the thread is the direct title of the article.  saying that he thinks the title is misleading has nothing to do with anyone in this thread because none of us wrote the article.  so it doesnt have anything to do with anyone here and doesnt add to any discussion.   whereas im directly speaking to someone in this thread regarding what they said.

see what i did there ?

Brawl does not allow you and up to 3 friends create levels simultaneously. Given my experience with that examples netcode i'm don't really want to see them attempt it

I misread your first post and assumed that you said LBP could've been done on the ps1/n64 pardon my mistake.  however i still don't understand you're argument as the wii is not a last gen system.  If you can show me something that has attempted something similar on the ps2/gc/xbox then i will concede that point.

As for the laundry list here goes

if it were on wii i wouldn't be able to:

1. voice chat (although i do realize nintendo will finally release an option for that this holiday season with wii speak)

2. Make images to import to the game because of no camera (even if they could allow us to import from sd the card that still represents a sizable difference in my potential to do so given it only has 512mb as opposed to a hdd)

3. Take advantage of the sizable amount off assets that the developers have created because of it not all fitting on dvd or even two or three of them.

4.  I don't know if the wii can upload user created videos to youtube but i don't believe it can, please correct me if i'm wrong

5. Being that i find the visuals to be quite wonderful it would be sad to see that diminish

if it were on the xbox360:

1. I don't think they would allow users to share content so openly.  If Epic of all people couldn't get mods for UT3 then I don't think anyone else would be allowed to.  There was an article a while back about how it would've had to change if on live vs psn.

2. Take advantage of the sizable amount off assets that the developers have created because of it not all fitting on dvd or even two or three of them. ( a repeat i know but probably still true) Not to mention every 360 user doesn't have a HDD and i'm sure that would cause problems as well.

The mantra that the developers state over and over again is Play, Create, Share.  Being on any other system at this time would affect our ability to Create, or Share thus dramatically altering the game.

"That's another thing - if we didn't have a hard drive on every unit, we'd have to scale back the ambition of what you could save and do. So yes, you could make this game on the 360, but it'd be a different game."

 Let me begin by explaining how I intepret the statement and then I will move on to why I disagree. I think fundamentally we are arguing different points. Soul Calibur 4 could be done on the Dreamcast in my world. You would need to scale it back graphically (and other elements) but the core of the gameplay and even the nuances could be maintained. My proof of this would be Soul Calibur. If you took Soul Calibur 4's mechanics and characters and gave it the graphical lay out of Soul Calibur I would call it Soul Calibur 4.

 Allowing 4 people to help you create the level would be trivial. I want to say Build Works allows this, but I have no real experience with the game so I do not know for certain. Adding an extra wiimote pointer that could also add parts of the stage would allows this.

 Voice communication does not make a game. If Nintendo were to put out a copy of Brawl with simply voice chat in there the game would be called the exact same. In the same vein an easier time using picture from the real world does also not make it a different game. Users uploading videos is done in Brawl to some extent and I think more so in Mario Kart Wii (the online system really is not as limited as most would have you believe). I will address points 3 and 5 (and kinda 2) a bit more later on.

 The 360 point I have a harder time disagreeing with admittedly. I don't know how Xbox Live and all of that is restricted so I can't say what logistical problems you would run in to. I can say from a technical perspective there is no reason that it shouldn't be able to work. The artificial blocks would certainly ause a lot of concern if this were to become a reality, but I am stick strictly theoretical right now. I will concede if there would be no way to freely share levels the game would be different.

 The last paragraph really is my point. Their mantra is Play, Create, and Share. It is not "Play with these super high-end visuals and real life photos included!" These are simply extras to enhance the game. The core of the game is playing a 2D platformer, making your level, and then sharing it with your friends. The heart of that game works from the moment you make it possible to create a level and then share it with a friend (well that and hyperbole to help show my point). If you took away Sackboy and replaced it with Mario the game would still be Little Big Planet (it would just have quadruple the sales). The finer points are not what makes the game.

 You say the game would be different on another console and not once have I disagreed with that. My examples highlight exactly that point and are the rock my entire arguement lays on. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is one game yes? Well you can't have a light saber duel in the PS360 version of it. Is that a different game now? Is Madden 09 All Play really a different game beause it included an arcade version of the football action? Is Soul Calibur 4 really 2 different games? A game being different does not make it a different game. Little Big Planet could be done on a different system but it cannot be cloned. The game would be different, but it would not be a different game.

Saying that this game could be made for the 360 is like saying that Halo 3 could be made on the PS3...duh, no shit! Will it be? No..does the game look so extensive that the 360 couldn't handle it? Come on people..use common sense.

I can't standby with this kind of misinformation.  I just can't.  The SPEs are really good at vector processing... not "bit blitting" or "DSP" code.  ...and the XBox360 has three cores, not two.  The 360 cores are not faster than the SPUs at general purpose processing -- they are easier to write code for, because they don't have to jump through the hoops of streaming data through and uploading jobs via masses of DMAs.  Don't confuse "easier" with "faster".  "Easier" u sually means the programmers have an easier time getting things running fast in short order.  In the end, given development time, the SPUs are individually just as fast as the CPU cores on the 360 -- and there are more of them.  ...and they are monstrously faster when it comes to vector math.

The Cell excels at everything in parallel -- everything, and especially vector math (extremely useful for animation, and some graphics operations).  The SPUs can run general purpose code as fast as the PPU, and in parallel to boot.  You just have to think in terms of data s treaming and parallelism to write your game to fit in 256K chunks while running in parallel.  The only reason you even see bad ports on the Cell is due to the inability/unwillingness of programmers to rewrite their engine to work in that fashion.

Heck, even a lot of 360 games don't use all 3 cores for a signifigant portion of a single game frame -- again due to engine issues that can be resolved by better engine architectures.  This is the reason EA's senior engineers decided that the PS3 should be their primary development platform -- engines developed on it are not only more easily down-ported to the 360, they are more efficient on the 360 as well, due to their parallel nature (because the 360 is a parallel architecture, albeit not so much as the PS3).

Honestly many games are GPU bound these days, and the 360 and PS3 GPUs are not much different.  When it comes to the CPU, however, the PS3 definately has the edge -- but only given a decent development cycle.  If you short the developer on time, or its a quick port from the 360 version, then the 360 is always gonna come out on top.

That being said, I honestly don't think LBP would be that hard to port to the 360, given that it obviously started out as a parallel engine -- but it would obviously require some changes.  Then again, it all depends on the engine -- for all we know, MM has their own proprietary physics engine that *requires* the vector power of the SPUs.

I'm a PS3 fan, so don't get me wrong..but it's blatantly obvious the graphics for LBP aren't that complicated and could easily be done on the 360.  I'm not even 1 1-millionth of a percent uncertain about it..this game isn't like Heavy Rain..THAT game, yeah I could see your argument, because it probably couldn't be done on the 360..but again, who knows?  Thats a discussion for another day.

I'm glad you read the part where I said I played it in real life and so far nothing I have seen this side of Ratchet is anywhere near as good.  Watching the game on a compressed stream on gametrailers and PSN is one thing.  However, glaring at it on a 65 inch Sony 1080p Bravia at PAX is another.  The game is DAMN impressive.  The textures look absolutely phenomonal.  Everything about this game is not simple.

"well, you could do any game on any platform"... W00T, ZOMG! Metal Gear Solid 4 on Wii c0nf1rm3d!!!

I stopped quoting because it was just too long at this point

Allowing me to create these levels with my friends is a very large point of the game for me.  My friends and I have wanted this for a very long time and without it I wouldn't be willing to plunk down the cash for a ps3.  I don't think it's trivial.

In an age of gaming monotony i would say that most users do feel that the finer points make the game.  Ask any FPS fans about the differences between two different games in the genre.  it all comes down to the finer points.  Is Half-Life the same as Doom?What about Virtua Fighter and Tekken?  Final Fantasy and Breath of Fire?

Take away the scale of shadow of the Colossus and you DO have a different game. Take away the scale of creation or sharing in LBP and you DO have a different game. Plenty of games allow you to play, create, and share but not on the same scale.

I suppose i understand you're point now, i simply do not at all agree.