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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's E3 furthers N's commitment to destroying the industry

So is your argument that the hardcore games of the past and present like GTA, Halo, COD, Manhunt, Madden are the artistic equivalent of Hitchcock?

Is that your argment?? Really??



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Garcian Smith said:

DTG said:
wow the sarcasm in this thread is saddening. You people must have never picked up a dovstoyevski or watched a Hitchock and don't want to see anything comparable in games either.

Weren't you the guy who was comparing Metal Gear Solid to high art in another thread?

If so, then lol.

Also, I doubt you've ever read any Dostoyevsky (seeing as you can't even spell the guy's name corrently) outside of a battered copy of "Crime and Punishment" in your high school English class that you slogged through against your will, but like to pull out every once in a while on the Internet to show how well-read you supposedly are. Seriously, stop with the teenage pseudo-intellectual crap.

He's also the guy who compared the United States to Nazi Germany and Communist Russia, i believe saying that in some ways the US was worse... because America is secretly forcing it's culture on everybody... vs genocide which was out in the open... or something and...

I don't even know where he was going with it.  Either way... it seems like he really likes mass conspiracy theores.

 



Garcian Smith said:

DTG: Okay; please refer me to a critical analysis of MGS2 (or, heck, any MGS game) that portrays the supposedly deep, mature themes running undercurrent in the game - preferably with reference to specific plot points, events, and characters that relate to other pieces of high art from whatever medium, and with analysis that takes into account at least one major, specific school of thought in reference to art interpretation. Or, if you can't find one, then write one yourself. I'm very interested to see this.

 

The best one which was on Metalgearsolid.org is unfortunately unavailable as the website is down. It covers the entire franchise and all of it's themes. You can find it here once the website is up again and is a remarkable read. http://www.metalgearsolid.org/show_features.php?id=1382

James Howells analysis is also a great read. (He also did an amazing Killer7 analysis). It also raises attention to what many people tend to overlook -that the games (MGS2 in this case) do present their themes through gameplay as well.

http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

A third one, perhaps the least impressive analysis yet still a worthy read is this one.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/913941/17225

 



epicurean said:
Garcian Smith said:
epicurean said:
I don't mind the focus on fun, but other than COD and GTA:DS (which is going to be horrible), everything was focused on 4 year olds. Maybe 5 year olds. Wii music where you don't even have to hit any buttons? Are you kidding?

 


Games that don't have blood, weapons, and at least three decapitations are for 4 year olds. You heard it here first, folks.

 

 

Where did I say anything close to that? However, games where you hold a remote in front of your mouth and just move around ARE for 4 year olds, though. Mario Galaxy was great fun for all ages. So was Metroid. But the stuff they showed today, for the most part, is marketed at kindergartners, and parents who want to entertain them. Which there is a market for, and I'm fine with it that they are selling to that market, but I couldn't be less interested in it. However, if the fanboys want to defend that these games are for all ages, be my guest. I also have some toys from my 1 year old niece you might find interesting I could sell you.

 

Care to explain further, then, other than "lol motion controls are for non-gamers"?

 

@ Kasz216: Yep, I went through that phase too. It's called "being a teenager." Hopefully he'll grow out of it. ;)



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

DTG said:
Garcian Smith said:

DTG: Okay; please refer me to a critical analysis of MGS2 (or, heck, any MGS game) that portrays the supposedly deep, mature themes running undercurrent in the game - preferably with reference to specific plot points, events, and characters that relate to other pieces of high art from whatever medium, and with analysis that takes into account at least one major, specific school of thought in reference to art interpretation. Or, if you can't find one, then write one yourself. I'm very interested to see this.

 

The best one which was on Metalgearsolid.org is unfortunately unavailable as the website is down. It covers the entire franchise and all of it's themes. You can find it here once the website is up again and is a remarkable read. http://www.metalgearsolid.org/show_features.php?id=1382

James Howells analysis is also a great read. (He also did an amazing Killer7 analysis). It also raises attention to what many people tend to overlook -that the games (MGS2 in this case) do present their themes through gameplay as well.

http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

A third one, perhaps the least impressive analysis yet still a worthy read is this one.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/913941/17225

 


You do realize the guy you are linking too in that second link has made quite a lot of money off Metal Gear Solid and Kojima in general right?



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Kasz216 said:
DTG said:
Garcian Smith said:

DTG: Okay; please refer me to a critical analysis of MGS2 (or, heck, any MGS game) that portrays the supposedly deep, mature themes running undercurrent in the game - preferably with reference to specific plot points, events, and characters that relate to other pieces of high art from whatever medium, and with analysis that takes into account at least one major, specific school of thought in reference to art interpretation. Or, if you can't find one, then write one yourself. I'm very interested to see this.

 

The best one which was on Metalgearsolid.org is unfortunately unavailable as the website is down. It covers the entire franchise and all of it's themes. You can find it here once the website is up again and is a remarkable read. http://www.metalgearsolid.org/show_features.php?id=1382

James Howells analysis is also a great read. (He also did an amazing Killer7 analysis). It also raises attention to what many people tend to overlook -that the games (MGS2 in this case) do present their themes through gameplay as well.

http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

A third one, perhaps the least impressive analysis yet still a worthy read is this one.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/913941/17225

 


You do realize the guy you are linking too in that second link has made quite a lot of money off Metal Gear Solid and Kojima in general right?

 

Yes, but I believe that happened after he wrote the above analysis. Plus it isn't relevant to the integrity of the analysis itself, most of what is written there can be easily verified by simply playing the game and pairing the confirmed themes of memes, genes, control etc with the gameplay elements that James points out making it fairly logical.

 



DTG said:
Garcian Smith said:

DTG: Okay; please refer me to a critical analysis of MGS2 (or, heck, any MGS game) that portrays the supposedly deep, mature themes running undercurrent in the game - preferably with reference to specific plot points, events, and characters that relate to other pieces of high art from whatever medium, and with analysis that takes into account at least one major, specific school of thought in reference to art interpretation. Or, if you can't find one, then write one yourself. I'm very interested to see this.

 

The best one which was on Metalgearsolid.org is unfortunately unavailable as the website is down. It covers the entire franchise and all of it's themes. You can find it here once the website is up again and is a remarkable read. http://www.metalgearsolid.org/show_features.php?id=1382

James Howells analysis is also a great read. (He also did an amazing Killer7 analysis). It also raises attention to what many people tend to overlook -that the games (MGS2 in this case) do present their themes through gameplay as well.

http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

A third one, perhaps the least impressive analysis yet still a worthy read is this one.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/913941/17225

 

 

As you said, the first link was down, but the second one is just awful. It's positively mind-bending how much this guy reads into seemingly insignificant or satirical events. My favorite passage:

"Raiden’s relationship with the player also changed as the Solid Map failed. Raiden became less controllable when he refused to uncover his genitals during his naked escape. He sometimes sneezed from the cold and revealed his presence to enemies. The player’s actor refused to act; he even made mistakes and created trouble that the player might have avoided. The gameplay subtly asserted Raiden's growing awareness of himself as a concrete character rather than an abstract actor."

So, Raiden running around in his skivvies = some babble about abstract actors v. concrete characters. This entire thing reads like a parody of postmodern analysis. It often reminds me of those guys who wrote - and got published - a completely fabricated postmodern essay.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Garcian Smith said:
DTG said:
Garcian Smith said:

DTG: Okay; please refer me to a critical analysis of MGS2 (or, heck, any MGS game) that portrays the supposedly deep, mature themes running undercurrent in the game - preferably with reference to specific plot points, events, and characters that relate to other pieces of high art from whatever medium, and with analysis that takes into account at least one major, specific school of thought in reference to art interpretation. Or, if you can't find one, then write one yourself. I'm very interested to see this.

 

The best one which was on Metalgearsolid.org is unfortunately unavailable as the website is down. It covers the entire franchise and all of it's themes. You can find it here once the website is up again and is a remarkable read. http://www.metalgearsolid.org/show_features.php?id=1382

James Howells analysis is also a great read. (He also did an amazing Killer7 analysis). It also raises attention to what many people tend to overlook -that the games (MGS2 in this case) do present their themes through gameplay as well.

http://www.deltaheadtranslation.com/MGS2/DOTM_TOC.htm

A third one, perhaps the least impressive analysis yet still a worthy read is this one.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/913941/17225

 

 

As you said, the first link was down, but the second one is just awful. It's positively mind-bending how much this guy reads into seemingly insignificant or satirical events. My favorite passage:

"Raiden’s relationship with the player also changed as the Solid Map failed. Raiden became less controllable when he refused to uncover his genitals during his naked escape. He sometimes sneezed from the cold and revealed his presence to enemies. The player’s actor refused to act; he even made mistakes and created trouble that the player might have avoided. The gameplay subtly asserted Raiden's growing awareness of himself as a concrete character rather than an abstract actor."

So, Raiden running around in his skivvies = some babble about abstract actors v. concrete characters. This entire thing reads like a parody of postmodern analysis. It often reminds me of those guys who wrote - and got published - a completely fabricated postmodern essay.

Oh jeez.  Sounds like it actually might be worth reading.  Got a link to the Killer 7 one too?  DTG?  Can't wait to see how badly he screwed that one up too... which will probably be worse, since Killer 7 actually does have some stuff behind it unlike the MGS series.

 



Guys, don't argue with DTG about MGS. It won't lead anywhere and you'll be frustrated afterwards.

OT: lol



Nintendo is at work expanding the market. Once the console's market can provide a profit to more artistic and high-quality storyline games, those developers who want to try that can do so, and more freely at that (less costs and more userbase for the game, so less risk). I have no clue why you would be expecting Nintendo to provide top-notch storytelling on top of what they're already doing so well. If anything, such games should be left to third parties since it will add more diversity to the quality storyline titles.