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Forums - Movies & TV - [Variety] Disney's Boy Trouble: Corp seeking ways to win back young men

Disney has always been a female-centric brand anyway, at least half of their fanbase has to be women. I remember even in the late 80s/90s renaissance they had as many girls in my class were into The Little Mermaid, Beauty & The Beast, Aladdin, etc. etc. Lion King was the only one that sorta leaned more towards the boys, and even that was very popular with girls.

In their recent history their biggest animated hits have been the Frozen and Moana franchises. Their biggest movie this year is Lilo & Stitch which has outgrossed Fantastic 4, Mission: Impossible, and Superman easily. The year before that it was Inside Out 2 which was a massive blockbuster for them. Moana 2 was a massive hit. These are all female led films. 

Of course they want to keep printing money from Marvel and Star Wars, but the comic book movie boom is probably over no matter what. Trends like that always inevitably fall off, 2008-2019 is not going to repeat. Sure you will have things like Doomsday do good box office, but the days of being able to just make any superhero with an OK script and make bank are over IMO. People have seen just about everything there is to see (cross overs, R rated superheroes, wisecracking superheroes, charismatic superheroes, multiverse team ups, heroes killed off, heroes brought back, reboots, etc. etc. etc.), there's not much you can do that's compelling and new anymore.

And that's good for the overall industry as I've said. Something else needs to come up and different audiences need to drive box office, you can't be relying on the same comic book dorks to prop up the entire business and having studios only wanting to greenlight movies and take chances on projects for that audience. Outside of the US especially, I get the real sense audiences there are done with the whole superhero craze. They've seen enough and even if you make a good to very good superhero movie (apparently Thunderbolts is quite good, I saw Fantastic 4 and it was more than decent) ... that's not enough.



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EricHiggin said:
Torillian said:

You agree with the idea of encouraging marginalized communities to go into careers that they previously were unable or at least heavily societally discouraged? Because honestly based on all your "the giver-esque, we should encourage people do what they do best versus what they would want to do" shit and your confidence that you can basically figure out who would be best for a job based on gender and sexuality it really sounded like you don't agree with that concept. 

If that's the case and all you disagree with is how Disney's making movies then I don't give a shit and you can just move on to continuing to talk about how Rey is a Mary Sue. 

I guess out of curiosity, what were your thoughts on fantastic four? because it seems like it should be right in the wheelhouse of those with these concerns with the happy family of a newborn pronatalism stuff going on. 

Who said I, or anyone, are supposed to pre select people for job positions? I just said I prefer to live in a place where I have options. If there are people who like what they do but aren't good at it, then I want someone who is good if not great at it, no matter if they like the job itself or not. If I can have both obviously that would be ideal, but I also know that's not typically how the world works and is more of a rarity.

We don't want borderline good enough most of the time, and we certainly don't want everyone becoming an extreme sports athlete or Hollywood star, or YouTube personality or influencer, etc, just because that's what they like. Many more Doctors, engineers, tradesmen, etc, wouldn't just be more useful, but are flat out needed, whether enough people like those positions or not.

Now if you and others like you, don't care at all, and are willing to accept whatever the outcome, even if that's inefficiency and mediocrity for the most part, that's fine with me and people like me, just don't try to force that on us. Whether or not that's the outcome, who knows? Maybe it will lead to a better system overall, but then prove it first somewhere where only fewer pay for a failure if it occurs, not everyone everywhere. If you are right and it works much better, then it will be pretty easy to get everyone else for the most part to follow suit.

Until then, people like me think the system we have is pretty good for the most part, but like most things, has room for well thought out improvement, incrementally. Just let everyone do whatever role they like, everywhere, starting now, isn't well thought out.

I haven't seen the new F4 film yet.

What do you think the current system is for people figuring out their careers? Because I would argue that it's largely that people do what they feel like they want to do given the options available. In what way is the system I have previously described not what is currently done? 

My goal is that certain sections of the community that previously were shut out from certain options are allowed that option. That they're encouraged to explore that option if that's something that they want to counter heavy societal pressure against it from previous times. I'm sure there will never be just perfect parody between every subgroup of the community within every career, but it is certainly improved and my only goal is not to go backwards in those freedoms. 



...

Torillian said:
EricHiggin said:

Who said I, or anyone, are supposed to pre select people for job positions? I just said I prefer to live in a place where I have options. If there are people who like what they do but aren't good at it, then I want someone who is good if not great at it, no matter if they like the job itself or not. If I can have both obviously that would be ideal, but I also know that's not typically how the world works and is more of a rarity.

We don't want borderline good enough most of the time, and we certainly don't want everyone becoming an extreme sports athlete or Hollywood star, or YouTube personality or influencer, etc, just because that's what they like. Many more Doctors, engineers, tradesmen, etc, wouldn't just be more useful, but are flat out needed, whether enough people like those positions or not.

Now if you and others like you, don't care at all, and are willing to accept whatever the outcome, even if that's inefficiency and mediocrity for the most part, that's fine with me and people like me, just don't try to force that on us. Whether or not that's the outcome, who knows? Maybe it will lead to a better system overall, but then prove it first somewhere where only fewer pay for a failure if it occurs, not everyone everywhere. If you are right and it works much better, then it will be pretty easy to get everyone else for the most part to follow suit.

Until then, people like me think the system we have is pretty good for the most part, but like most things, has room for well thought out improvement, incrementally. Just let everyone do whatever role they like, everywhere, starting now, isn't well thought out.

I haven't seen the new F4 film yet.

What do you think the current system is for people figuring out their careers? Because I would argue that it's largely that people do what they feel like they want to do given the options available. In what way is the system I have previously described not what is currently done? 

My goal is that certain sections of the community that previously were shut out from certain options are allowed that option. That they're encouraged to explore that option if that's something that they want to counter heavy societal pressure against it from previous times. I'm sure there will never be just perfect parody between every subgroup of the community within every career, but it is certainly improved and my only goal is not to go backwards in those freedoms. 

Nobody who meets the requirements to be able to work, should be held back from it, but they also have to be able to meet the requirements of the specific role. No weakening the requirements to allow for them to simply be able to do what they would like to. If they can't cut it, then they have to try something else. If they can't meet the requirements of something they like, then they'll have to do something they don't like (as much), or try and start their own business.

Money is also a problem. If we look at work like anybody should be able to do whatever they like, and everyone else should just accept it, then why not pay everyone the same as well? 'Think you're more important and should get paid more? Sorry, not anymore. Just accept it!' Well that will never work, but if there are jobs people really like to do, that pay poorly, many won't want those positions, so then what?



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

EricHiggin said:
Torillian said:

What do you think the current system is for people figuring out their careers? Because I would argue that it's largely that people do what they feel like they want to do given the options available. In what way is the system I have previously described not what is currently done? 

My goal is that certain sections of the community that previously were shut out from certain options are allowed that option. That they're encouraged to explore that option if that's something that they want to counter heavy societal pressure against it from previous times. I'm sure there will never be just perfect parody between every subgroup of the community within every career, but it is certainly improved and my only goal is not to go backwards in those freedoms. 

Nobody who meets the requirements to be able to work, should be held back from it, but they also have to be able to meet the requirements of the specific role. No weakening the requirements to allow for them to simply be able to do what they would like to. If they can't cut it, then they have to try something else. If they can't meet the requirements of something they like, then they'll have to do something they don't like (as much), or try and start their own business.

Money is also a problem. If we look at work like anybody should be able to do whatever they like, and everyone else should just accept it, then why not pay everyone the same as well? 'Think you're more important and should get paid more? Sorry, not anymore. Just accept it!' Well that will never work, but if there are jobs people really like to do, that pay poorly, many won't want those positions, so then what?

The bolded is fine, and the rest is not anything I stated. Never said we should have the same pay for all jobs or change requirements. My goal is to make sure we don't miss out on the next Frances Arnold, Jennifer Doudna, or Emmanuelle Charpentier because we go back to telling women their place is at the home. Whoever wants to stay at home (assuming finances allow), cool, and whoever wants to pursue a career is good as well. 



...

Torillian said:
EricHiggin said:

Nobody who meets the requirements to be able to work, should be held back from it, but they also have to be able to meet the requirements of the specific role. No weakening the requirements to allow for them to simply be able to do what they would like to. If they can't cut it, then they have to try something else. If they can't meet the requirements of something they like, then they'll have to do something they don't like (as much), or try and start their own business.

Money is also a problem. If we look at work like anybody should be able to do whatever they like, and everyone else should just accept it, then why not pay everyone the same as well? 'Think you're more important and should get paid more? Sorry, not anymore. Just accept it!' Well that will never work, but if there are jobs people really like to do, that pay poorly, many won't want those positions, so then what?

The bolded is fine, and the rest is not anything I stated. Never said we should have the same pay for all jobs or change requirements. My goal is to make sure we don't miss out on the next Frances Arnold, Jennifer Doudna, or Emmanuelle Charpentier because we go back to telling women their place is at the home. Whoever wants to stay at home (assuming finances allow), cool, and whoever wants to pursue a career is good as well. 

I didn't say you stated that, I'm just pointing out that it's not as simple as, "build it and they will come". That's a start, but there's plenty more to take into account beyond that, both potentially positive and negative.

We're always going to end up missing out for various reasons in every situation, but yes, we should do what we can to attempt to minimize that.



PS1   - ! - We must build a console that can alert our enemies.

PS2  - @- We must build a console that offers online living room gaming.

PS3   - #- We must build a console that’s powerful, social, costs and does everything.

PS4   - $- We must build a console that’s affordable, charges for services, and pumps out exclusives.

PRO  -%-We must build a console that's VR ready, checkerboard upscales, and sells but a fraction of the money printer.

PS5   - ^ -We must build a console that’s a generational cross product, with RT lighting, and price hiking.

PRO  -&- We must build a console that Super Res upscales and continues the cost increases.

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JRPGfan said:

Isn't that why they bought Starwars and Marvel ? because it was too female focused already?
And what did they do once they got Starwars and Marvel? Franchises that were probably like 85%+ male audience ?

They gave us Boss Babes, Marry Sues, all men = bad and root of evil, ect ect.
They did the entire feminist dream situtation, to appeal to women instead (ei. get more women watching starwars and super heroes).

Disney need to come to terms with it being okay to have masculine males leads, that go on to save the day.
Like let boys have their thing, instead of trying to appeal to everyone.
(turning male audience stuff into stuff that's supposed to get more women (at the cost of men dropping it)).

At the very least they should try to get rid of men hating, leads (actors), directors, writers ect.
Just don't hire them to work on stuff, where the audience is like 85% male.

rapsuperstar31 said:

Not a fan of Marvel movies?  Some of the biggest movies of the last decade.

The Multiverse Saga  (phase 4 and 5) hasn't been great.
I'd say the quality started dropping before then too.

And yes, at this point, I have super hero fatigue. 
I don't want to see a mid quality, poorly written super hero movie, if I can avoid it.

I think what they did to Starwars was arguably worse though.



Yes, this is the crux of the problem in all of its ridiculousness. Pre-woke Disney was still in the business of making money, so they bought the two biggest boy franchises in history in order to broaden their base, to get the larger male audience into the fold. Then they were infected by woke along with the whole industry, and decided they need to get rid of the boy things and make everything "future is female"/"modern audience" and in many cases even openly hostile or at least dismissive to males.

So they printed money with the Marvel universe for a good while, and then they pissed away their keys to the kingdom in a blunder that will be studied in business history for aeons to come. Now they pretend they don't know what happened, and wonder where all the males went. It's a mystery indeed.