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Forums - Gaming - Sony will increase the ps5 price again.

SanAndreasX said:
xl-klaudkil said:

I agree besides the nintento remark.

Nintendo just destroyed the physical game market with there horrible anti consumer anti physical  code on a plastic sticky  gamekeycard + insanely hight physical prices of 80 - 90€

Nintendo is not a good guy.

Steam destroyed the physical market two decades ago. It's been surviving on borrowed time since then/

Yea,noo. Steam did not.



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Kyuu said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Thankyou for the link but that guy doesn't actually name his source. Whether you are a PHD or a regular guy your source cannot be "because I said so". Also I suspect that the writer of that blog is referring to Japanese physical games since that is what his site mainly focuses on. Finally, he is CEO of his own company which unless he has more employees than himself is pretty suspicious. 

I tried finding my own source but could only find the typical breakdown of $60 that has been around since 2010. 

But even this is pretty suspect because having talked to multiple independent shop owners they all swear they only make $5 on a sale of a brand new game.

But then again it would make a lot of sense to be 30% a cut. $15 of $60 is 25% and a 5% bump for going to $70 would make sense. Sorry I just want a solid source on this either way. 

I wish he linked more solid data breakdowns, but he pretty much is a source himself. He's an active industry guy with connections, followed and sometimes cited by Jason Schreier, Daniel Ahmad, Christopher Dring, Takashi Mochizuki, Tae Kim, etc.

It is curious that articles about this are scarce. But there is just no way that platform holders and retailers get a 30% cut each. This would leave like 40% between the game's publisher and developers, not factoring in disk/cartridge cost, development and marketing budgets, and extra fees like 3rd party engines and licensing. So I'm going to assume that the cuts are more flexible.

Nobody is a source themselves. That's credentialism. Whether you cite a priest for claiming that spirits cause illness or cite a scientist for claiming that all life on earth is dependent on the sun, you wind up being wrong. Unless something has been established as common factual knowledge, it needs to be demonstrated. Whatever source someone uses needs to actually explain and demonstrate how they are right. A book stating that aluminum will burn when mixed with carbon isn't a good source if it doesn't include an explanation or demonstration of how and why. Multiple credentialed sources all saying the same thing is better but not bulletproof. Especially if it's on a controversial topic. 


But anyway, the money you spend on a game definitely gets thinned out when bought at retail. Back during the 360 days, a developer might get $15 to $20 from a $60 game sale. This was an established fact, as you can find all sorts of graphs and charts from multiple sources saying the same thing around 2010. And I believe many of these charts state which retailers they asked. I do remember Gamestop and small-time shops claiming that they only make $5 on the sale of a brand-new game. But I can't find the quote and Gamestop may be full of it. It does suck that we don't have a reliable source for any of this stuff these days. I guess I could call up multiple independent shops and ask but that would only establish that indie shops get hosed. 



Kyuu said:

Nintendo is facing challenges of their own:

1. They probably will fail to make as much profit per hardware unit as they did with Switch 1, even though it's notably more expensive.

2. Their userbase being physical bias is a problem, because cartridges cost up to $17 to make in addition to the 30% retailer fees. Their outrageous physical prices are an attempt to accelerate the switch to the cheaper (and more profitable) digital. Bluray in comparison is very cheap, plus Sony and MS both have much higher digital ratios.

Decent chance Nintendo consoles' profit margins will fall dramatically this generation even if Switch 2 manages to sell 150 million+ units. 

1. Probably true, but the biggest reason for that is the tariff situation in the USA. Besides, hardware has never been a big contributor to profits, so this isn't going to be especially significant in the big picture.

2. Production costs of cards are covered by higher game prices, so it's not the physical medium that poses a problem. Their physical MSRP in Europe is higher than digital - unlike in America where both cost the same - because European retailers have a habit of undercutting the MSRP. This has made physical games routinely cheaper than their digital counterparts. But when, say, Mediamarkt now undercuts Nintendo's MSRP by €10, then physical and digital cost the same; and that's what Mediamarkt already does.

The biggest threat to Nintendo's profit margins is their decision to make a Mario Kart World bundle where the game is notably discounted, so this fiscal year alone they'll leave money for around 10 million copies on the table, which ranges anywhere between $200-400 million in lost profit depending on how you want to estimate it. But in the long run the higher game prices this generation will keep Switch 2's profitability pretty close to Switch 1's. Third parties surrendering the physical games market to Nintendo for the most part will probably increase the sales of first party software which is the biggest contributor to Nintendo's overall profitability.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

SanAndreasX said:
xl-klaudkil said:

I agree besides the nintento remark.

Nintendo just destroyed the physical game market with there horrible anti consumer anti physical  code on a plastic sticky  gamekeycard + insanely hight physical prices of 80 - 90€

Nintendo is not a good guy.

Steam destroyed the physical market two decades ago. It's been surviving on borrowed time since then/

Steam is anti-consumer garbage. They allow Denuvo and other 3rd party DRM. They don't let you sell or trade your games even though game-key-cards show that sellable and tradable digital licenses are easily done. Valve was the first company to allow complete and utter slop to overtake their storefront. Everything Gabe Newell says is good about Steam is shown to be a lie when you go to Steam and buy games. It offers a better service than piracy? Nope Denuvo exists. Frequent sales and discounts? Irrelevant when you can't sell your own games, because a free marketplace will always offer better deals than a closed ecosystem. Biggest library of games? Slop is irrelevant, and many older games don't work or don't run authentically on modern PC OS. 



Imagine Series X and PS5 being $250 each right now. Imagine Switch lite being $99 and Switch being $149. 



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xl-klaudkil said:
SanAndreasX said:

Steam destroyed the physical market two decades ago. It's been surviving on borrowed time since then/

Yea,noo. Steam did not.

It definitely did in the PC space. Big Box PC games were very common before Steam but when Steam started to hit its stride, Phyiscal media started to disappear to basically none existence, out side of collector editions.



RolStoppable said:
Kyuu said:

Nintendo is facing challenges of their own:

1. They probably will fail to make as much profit per hardware unit as they did with Switch 1, even though it's notably more expensive.

2. Their userbase being physical bias is a problem, because cartridges cost up to $17 to make in addition to the 30% retailer fees. Their outrageous physical prices are an attempt to accelerate the switch to the cheaper (and more profitable) digital. Bluray in comparison is very cheap, plus Sony and MS both have much higher digital ratios.

Decent chance Nintendo consoles' profit margins will fall dramatically this generation even if Switch 2 manages to sell 150 million+ units. 

1. Probably true, but the biggest reason for that is the tariff situation in the USA. Besides, hardware has never been a big contributor to profits, so this isn't going to be especially significant in the big picture.

2. Production costs of cards are covered by higher game prices, so it's not the physical medium that poses a problem. Their physical MSRP in Europe is higher than digital - unlike in America where both cost the same - because European retailers have a habit of undercutting the MSRP. This has made physical games routinely cheaper than their digital counterparts. But when, say, Mediamarkt now undercuts Nintendo's MSRP by €10, then physical and digital cost the same; and that's what Mediamarkt already does.

The biggest threat to Nintendo's profit margins is their decision to make a Mario Kart World bundle where the game is notably discounted, so this fiscal year alone they'll leave money for around 10 million copies on the table, which ranges anywhere between $200-400 million in lost profit depending on how you want to estimate it. But in the long run the higher game prices this generation will keep Switch 2's profitability pretty close to Switch 1's. Third parties surrendering the physical games market to Nintendo for the most part will probably increase the sales of first party software which is the biggest contributor to Nintendo's overall profitability.

Mario Kart World bundles are temporary, aren't they?

I can't say much with confidence. Profit margins might fall significantly behind Switch 1's, and profitability slightly behind. But then again we have no idea how the price trajectory is gonna go this generation or how Nintendo's more price sensitive players will react to the new pricing in the long run. Higher game prices would only cover the high cartridge cost if software sales numbers somehow aren't affected at all (Cheaper software will always reach a broader audience vs a more expensive version of the same software. But Nintendo's natural popularity growth may offset this).



Cerebralbore101 said:

Imagine Series X and PS5 being $250 each right now. Imagine Switch lite being $99 and Switch being $149. 

And you know what's even worse? The corporations have gotten so emboldened that even without tariffs I doubt the hardware would have more than a modest price cut at best. Nintendo has had years to cut the price of Switch and has refused to. Even Sony and Microsoft could've cut prices of the hardware in 2023 or 2024. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Azzanation said:
xl-klaudkil said:

Yea,noo. Steam did not.

It definitely did in the PC space. Big Box PC games were very common before Steam but when Steam started to hit its stride, Phyiscal media started to disappear to basically none existence, out side of collector editions.

True that. Then Games for Windows - Live was the final nail in the coffin for physical PC games.



You called down the thunder, now reap the whirlwind

Ryuu96 said:

They held out for longer than I thought they would.


I think it has more to with companies being greedy.

The hardware gets cheaper to produce over time, yet no price cuts. They couldn't even keep the price stable.

On the bright side, my investments are growing.



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