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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo files lawsuit against Palworld developer

haxxiy said:
Mar1217 said:

Thinking on it, it's likely that since this is the stuff they can legally patent for their own purpose. Anywoo, this is going to be a must watch moment

It seems like there's a very specific patent for the Pokeball catches, so my guess could be correct after all. I suspected it had to be something from Red & Blue since that's when Nintendo would be involved personally and not just TPC/GF.

If its to do with Pokeball captures, they why only Palworld and not Coromon, TemTem or Cassette Beasts?

They all use similar capture mechanics with the main difference being the items. 



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SecondWar said:
haxxiy said:

It seems like there's a very specific patent for the Pokeball catches, so my guess could be correct after all. I suspected it had to be something from Red & Blue since that's when Nintendo would be involved personally and not just TPC/GF.

If its to do with Pokeball captures, they why only Palworld and not Coromon, TemTem or Cassette Beasts?

They all use similar capture mechanics with the main difference being the items. 

You're kinda answering your own question here. The fact that Palworld uses a ball-shaped object for the catching as opposed to literally anything else (cards, triangles, fidget spinners, etc.) may very well be the sticking point.



OK, I heard rumours and you have to take this with a big mount everest of salt. But the rumours say the patents or some of the patents in question are:

* mounting/unmounting a flying mount in overworld

* throwing an object at a creature in overworld

* releasing creatures in overworld

At least for one I found by scouring the patent-search machine one patent that might fit. Note it is an japanese patent and it was applied for in July and granted in September this year. Or maybe reapplied. I don't know. Google provides a translation:

https://patents.google.com/patent/JP7545191B1/en?assignee=nintendo&after=priority:20240430

Some juicy bits:

"Conventionally, there are game programs in which a player character throws a ball at a character in a virtual space, capturing the character and setting it in the player character's possession (for example, see Non-Patent Document 1)."

...

"However, in the game program disclosed in the above-mentioned non-patent document 1, the ball can only be thrown to capture characters during battle, and the ball cannot be thrown on the field."

...

"One configuration example of the game program of the present invention causes a computer of an information processing device to switch at least between a first mode and a second mode based on a first operation input, and in the first mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction in a virtual space based on a second operation input, and causes the player character to fire an item that affects a field character placed on a field in the virtual space in the aiming direction based on a third operation input, and when the item is fired at a location where the field character is placed, gives an effect associated with the item to the field character, and in the second mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction based on the second operation input, and causes the player character to fire a combat character that will engage in combat in the aiming direction based on the third operation input, and when the combat character is fired at a location where the field character is placed, starts a battle on the field between the field character and the combat character."

I read that as aiming in an overworld, there normal movement and camera movement is mapped to your sticks, so you press another button to switch to aim mode, aim with the stick (second input) and throw by pressing another button (third input).



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Seems like a really stupid patent. Granted I thought palworld was stupid for using a ball. At least change it to a net or something. At least try not to be blatantly.



Jules98 said:
SecondWar said:

If its to do with Pokeball captures, they why only Palworld and not Coromon, TemTem or Cassette Beasts?

They all use similar capture mechanics with the main difference being the items. 

You're kinda answering your own question here. The fact that Palworld uses a ball-shaped object for the catching as opposed to literally anything else (cards, triangles, fidget spinners, etc.) may very well be the sticking point.

If that’s really what Nintendo are basing their claim on then it seems a very flimsy claim. If its the Pokeball itself then that feels more like a copyright or trademark issue than a patent. A patent around the gameplay mechanic would surely be more concerned with the capturing mechanic rather than the item used for capturing.

An that’s what Mnemneth is saying as well - ‘throwing an object at a creature in the overworld’, not ‘use of a ball-shaped object to catch a creature’. The former would also mean Coromon and TemTem with an issue, whilst Cassette Beasts might get off as you don’t through the cassette to catch in that game.



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SecondWar said:
Jules98 said:

You're kinda answering your own question here. The fact that Palworld uses a ball-shaped object for the catching as opposed to literally anything else (cards, triangles, fidget spinners, etc.) may very well be the sticking point.

If that’s really what Nintendo are basing their claim on then it seems a very flimsy claim. If its the Pokeball itself then that feels more like a copyright or trademark issue than a patent. A patent around the gameplay mechanic would surely be more concerned with the capturing mechanic rather than the item used for capturing.

An that’s what Mnemneth is saying as well - ‘throwing an object at a creature in the overworld’, not ‘use of a ball-shaped object to catch a creature’. The former would also mean Coromon and TemTem with an issue, whilst Cassette Beasts might get off as you don’t through the cassette to catch in that game.

You can't patent an idea, but you can patent the expression of said idea, and that patented expression can be very specific. For example, take a look at this patent for Super Mario 64.

This patent does not cover the idea of using specific animations in specific circumstances, but the expression of that idea using this exact sequence of if-then statements. A similar thing happened with Mass Effect's dialogue choice wheel. The idea of dialogue choices is obviously not patented, but the expression of that idea using a wheel is. If Nintendo has a patent laying around somewhere which covers the expression of catching monsters by throwing balls, they might have a case.

In any case, for now the best thing to do is wait. Sooner or later the relevant legal documents will become available, and then we'll learn which patents (plural, mind you) are being quoted for this lawsuit. Anything anyone says is nothing more than speculation until then.



Mnementh said:

OK, I heard rumours and you have to take this with a big mount everest of salt. But the rumours say the patents or some of the patents in question are:

* mounting/unmounting a flying mount in overworld

* throwing an object at a creature in overworld

* releasing creatures in overworld

At least for one I found by scouring the patent-search machine one patent that might fit. Note it is an japanese patent and it was applied for in July and granted in September this year. Or maybe reapplied. I don't know. Google provides a translation:

https://patents.google.com/patent/JP7545191B1/en?assignee=nintendo&after=priority:20240430

Some juicy bits:

"Conventionally, there are game programs in which a player character throws a ball at a character in a virtual space, capturing the character and setting it in the player character's possession (for example, see Non-Patent Document 1)."

...

"However, in the game program disclosed in the above-mentioned non-patent document 1, the ball can only be thrown to capture characters during battle, and the ball cannot be thrown on the field."

...

"One configuration example of the game program of the present invention causes a computer of an information processing device to switch at least between a first mode and a second mode based on a first operation input, and in the first mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction in a virtual space based on a second operation input, and causes the player character to fire an item that affects a field character placed on a field in the virtual space in the aiming direction based on a third operation input, and when the item is fired at a location where the field character is placed, gives an effect associated with the item to the field character, and in the second mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction based on the second operation input, and causes the player character to fire a combat character that will engage in combat in the aiming direction based on the third operation input, and when the combat character is fired at a location where the field character is placed, starts a battle on the field between the field character and the combat character."

I read that as aiming in an overworld, there normal movement and camera movement is mapped to your sticks, so you press another button to switch to aim mode, aim with the stick (second input) and throw by pressing another button (third input).

In the date part of the google link says "After: priority 2024-04-30". If that is the date the patent was filed, it means they filed AFTER Palworld released (january 19th 2024 in early access). Kinda makes me feel they just did it to fuck with Palworld. This affair becomes nastier by the minute.



You know it deserves the GOTY.

Come join The 2018 Obscure Game Monthly Review Thread.

Darwinianevolution said:
Mnementh said:

OK, I heard rumours and you have to take this with a big mount everest of salt. But the rumours say the patents or some of the patents in question are:

* mounting/unmounting a flying mount in overworld

* throwing an object at a creature in overworld

* releasing creatures in overworld

At least for one I found by scouring the patent-search machine one patent that might fit. Note it is an japanese patent and it was applied for in July and granted in September this year. Or maybe reapplied. I don't know. Google provides a translation:

https://patents.google.com/patent/JP7545191B1/en?assignee=nintendo&after=priority:20240430

Some juicy bits:

"Conventionally, there are game programs in which a player character throws a ball at a character in a virtual space, capturing the character and setting it in the player character's possession (for example, see Non-Patent Document 1)."

...

"However, in the game program disclosed in the above-mentioned non-patent document 1, the ball can only be thrown to capture characters during battle, and the ball cannot be thrown on the field."

...

"One configuration example of the game program of the present invention causes a computer of an information processing device to switch at least between a first mode and a second mode based on a first operation input, and in the first mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction in a virtual space based on a second operation input, and causes the player character to fire an item that affects a field character placed on a field in the virtual space in the aiming direction based on a third operation input, and when the item is fired at a location where the field character is placed, gives an effect associated with the item to the field character, and in the second mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction based on the second operation input, and causes the player character to fire a combat character that will engage in combat in the aiming direction based on the third operation input, and when the combat character is fired at a location where the field character is placed, starts a battle on the field between the field character and the combat character."

I read that as aiming in an overworld, there normal movement and camera movement is mapped to your sticks, so you press another button to switch to aim mode, aim with the stick (second input) and throw by pressing another button (third input).

In the date part of the google link says "After: priority 2024-04-30". If that is the date the patent was filed, it means they filed AFTER Palworld released (january 19th 2024 in early access). Kinda makes me feel they just did it to fuck with Palworld. This affair becomes nastier by the minute.

Not quite. The patent linked here claims priority to an earlier patent from December 2021 (one month before the release of Legends Arceus) because this is not a new patent, but rather an updated version of the older 2021 patent (note how the expiration date is still in 2041).



Darwinianevolution said:
Mnementh said:

OK, I heard rumours and you have to take this with a big mount everest of salt. But the rumours say the patents or some of the patents in question are:

* mounting/unmounting a flying mount in overworld

* throwing an object at a creature in overworld

* releasing creatures in overworld

At least for one I found by scouring the patent-search machine one patent that might fit. Note it is an japanese patent and it was applied for in July and granted in September this year. Or maybe reapplied. I don't know. Google provides a translation:

https://patents.google.com/patent/JP7545191B1/en?assignee=nintendo&after=priority:20240430

Some juicy bits:

"Conventionally, there are game programs in which a player character throws a ball at a character in a virtual space, capturing the character and setting it in the player character's possession (for example, see Non-Patent Document 1)."

...

"However, in the game program disclosed in the above-mentioned non-patent document 1, the ball can only be thrown to capture characters during battle, and the ball cannot be thrown on the field."

...

"One configuration example of the game program of the present invention causes a computer of an information processing device to switch at least between a first mode and a second mode based on a first operation input, and in the first mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction in a virtual space based on a second operation input, and causes the player character to fire an item that affects a field character placed on a field in the virtual space in the aiming direction based on a third operation input, and when the item is fired at a location where the field character is placed, gives an effect associated with the item to the field character, and in the second mode, causes the computer to determine an aiming direction based on the second operation input, and causes the player character to fire a combat character that will engage in combat in the aiming direction based on the third operation input, and when the combat character is fired at a location where the field character is placed, starts a battle on the field between the field character and the combat character."

I read that as aiming in an overworld, there normal movement and camera movement is mapped to your sticks, so you press another button to switch to aim mode, aim with the stick (second input) and throw by pressing another button (third input).

In the date part of the google link says "After: priority 2024-04-30". If that is the date the patent was filed, it means they filed AFTER Palworld released (january 19th 2024 in early access). Kinda makes me feel they just did it to fuck with Palworld. This affair becomes nastier by the minute.

The 2024-04-30 is just my search, because what I heard that one of the patents was recent. The actual dates are in the box on the side:

2024-07-30 Application filed by Nintendo Co Ltd, Pokemon Co
2024-09-04 Application granted
But that could be reapplication date or the application of a japanese patent for an already existing US patent.


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Jules98 said:
Darwinianevolution said:

In the date part of the google link says "After: priority 2024-04-30". If that is the date the patent was filed, it means they filed AFTER Palworld released (january 19th 2024 in early access). Kinda makes me feel they just did it to fuck with Palworld. This affair becomes nastier by the minute.

Not quite. The patent linked here claims priority to an earlier patent from December 2021 (one month before the release of Legends Arceus) because this is not a new patent, but rather an updated version of the older 2021 patent (note how the expiration date is still in 2041).

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if it actually was that recent or a reapplication.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]