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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

sc94597 said:
curl-6 said:

That's the thing though, it doesn't matter if people like your policies or not if at the end of the day they still decide to cast their vote against you and what they perceive you to stand for.

It's less that they dislike Democratic policies per se and more that the dislike the "idea" of your party. As you say, it's vibes. The Democratic platform was seen as "the status quo" by a population who are pissed off and want change. 

Trump was able to speak to that discontent, much as Biden rode the wave of people pissed off with Trump in 2020.

Sure, but perception -- what people think they are calling for, is totally different from their platform -- what they are actually calling for. This wasn't a rejection of the Democratic platform, as you originally stated. Their platform is popular and fine. It's a rejection of their ability to project a message and act against opponents who outright lie. 

Living in a swing state, the commercials from the GOP side were things like "Kamala supports paid transgendered surgeries for criminals." "Border czar Kamala wants to protect rapist and murderer illegals." And other wacko shit that I can guarantee the overwhelming majority of people don't support. 

Democrats were punished for inflation that was something every developed country in the world experienced because the stimulus that caused it was necessary for more people to not die of COVID, and to prevent a global recession. A large part of that stimulus happened under Trump in 2020. 

The Democrats aren't my party by the way. I am a left-wing independent who votes for Democrats out of them being a lesser of two evils, but honestly probably disagrees with them 40% of the time. 

This is correct.  Nobody really understood what Harris top priorities were and what her plans were.  Messaging was garage out of the gates.



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haxxiy said:

To be honest, I don't think any Democrat fits the bill of what might be the success formula (more to the center on social issues + left-wing economic populism) right now.

I don't think it is done by just a candidate or something. To appeal to voters the Democrats itself need to change. And that will not happen easily. I think it might be easier to establish a new actually progressive left-wing party than to reform the Dems.

People are opposed to it because of the we vs. them mentality in US politics. But in the past the dominant parties in the US system could change and european countries have more than two parties and that includes the ones with majority voting like France or UK. I think a major problem is that polarization and the strong focus on only two parties. Also the focus on the president, as obviously it will be hard for a 3rd-party president to be competitive.

But house seats should be a totally different question. I mean just look at the house of commons in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Commons_of_the_United_Kingdom#/media/File:House_of_Commons_UK.svg

Why has the house in the US only have members of two parties? Therein lies the start of the problem of the hyperpolarized politics scene in the US.



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It's official, Trump's already broken his 1st promise.

But all I hear from MAGA idiots and Trump is how they'll "fix" what is happening with absolutely zero detail on how, no clue on the complexities of the situation, it's the equivalent of "trust me bro" with absolutely zero evidence or explanation as to how. "I'll fix the war between two countries that has been going on for over 10 years now and resulted in tens of thousands dead and stolen territory in a day" Are people really this fucking stupid to believe such a statement? Apparently so. Oh and if Trump was so brilliant why didn't he fix the war when he was in office in 16-20, dumb fucks don't realise that Ukraine has been in conflict with Russia since 2014 when they stole Crimea and ignited conflict in the Donbas.

Some Americans are fucking clueless, selfish and especially, hypocrites, considering how insane America goes when it's threatened even slightly and the same Americans demanding Ukraine surrender would be fucking jerking off at the sight of America's military bombing the shit out of some Middle-Eastern country that barely threatens them because "fuck those brown people!" Sure, I mean they are right, that is technically "peace" because 'everyone' will be dead.

How about China invade Texas, slaughter tens of thousands of Americans, kidnap thousands of children, turn your cities into rubble, rape your people and then have to hear Europe say "We'll fix the disaster happening in Texas, we'll cut off all support to America and Americans should negotiate with China and compromise with them for peace, hand them over Arizona for appeasement" because appeasement worked during WW2 didn't it? Hand over all your stuff to the bully, bow down, never fight back.

Wish they'd just be honest with us instead of hiding behind their bullshit and tell us what they really mean which is "Trump will end the wars by letting Israel slaughter all those dirty-Arabs until there's none left and cutting off aid to Ukraine to let Russia slaughter all Ukrainians because we love Russia now, and celebrate as we achieved peace through letting the fascists slaughter everyone who opposes them"

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 08 November 2024

EnricoPallazzo said:

4) The left needs to stop saying 50% of the country is fascist (people dont even know what that means), neo-nazi, garbage people, or think they have possession over certain demographics. How can you make someone change their vote when you call them nazi, maybe the worst thing you can say about someone? It will be very difficult to win votes from the other side treating half the population this way. Because, in the end, you DO need to conquer part of the people on the other side.

Yeah, people really have to stop with this. Humans are persons, each with their own ideas, wishes, dreams, hopes and problems. For instance workers exploited for their labor by Amazon have much in common, even if one is black and the other white. Skin colors, sexuality and so on are all secondary traits. I am amazed if people that are asked to describe themself first think of their skin color or sexuality. You are so boring and so much without own agency driven by external forces that the most defining traits of yourself in your view are things outside your own control? If you describe yourself as a Star Wars fan, a gamer, a parent or a curious person, you show more interest in the traits of your own personality you yourself defined. Way more interesting.



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Ryuu96 said:

It's official, Trump's already broken his 1st promise.

But all I hear from MAGA idiots and Trump is how they'll "fix" what is happening with absolutely zero detail on how, no clue on the complexities of the situation, it's the equivalent of "trust me bro" with absolutely zero evidence or explanation as to how. "I'll fix the war between two countries that has been going on for over 10 years now and resulted in tens of thousands dead and stolen territory in a day" Are people really this fucking stupid to believe such a statement? Apparently so. Oh and if Trump was so brilliant why didn't he fix the war when he was in office in 16-20, dumb fucks don't realise that Ukraine has been in conflict with Russia since 2014 when they stole Crimea and ignited conflict in the Donbas.

Some Americans are fucking clueless, selfish and especially, hypocrites, considering how insane America goes when it's threatened even slightly and the same Americans demanding Ukraine surrender would be fucking jerking off at the sight of America's military bombing the shit out of some Middle-Eastern country that barely threatens them because "fuck those brown people!" Sure, I mean they are right, that is technically "peace" because 'everyone' will be dead.

How about China invade Texas, slaughter tens of thousands of Americans, kidnap thousands of children, turn your cities into rubble, rape your people and then have to hear Europe say "We'll fix the disaster happening in Texas, we'll cut off all support to America and Americans should negotiate with China and compromise with them for peace, hand them over Arizona for appeasement" because appeasement worked during WW2 didn't it? Hand over all your stuff to the bully, bow down, never fight back.

Wish they'd just be honest with us instead of hiding behind their bullshit and tell us what they really mean which is "Trump will end the wars by letting Israel slaughter all those dirty-Arabs until there's none left and cutting off aid to Ukraine to let Russia slaughter all Ukrainians because we love Russia now, and celebrate as we achieved peace through letting the fascists slaughter everyone who opposes them"

Demonizing middle America isn't a good tactic.  The whole "deplorable" and "garbage" comments backfired.  We really going to make the same mistake a 3rd time?  Bill Maher, back in 2020, had an episode about supporting middle America (e.g. Trump voters) because the left needs them to win elections..  he was right and is still right.



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Chrkeller said:
Ryuu96 said:

It's official, Trump's already broken his 1st promise.

But all I hear from MAGA idiots and Trump is how they'll "fix" what is happening with absolutely zero detail on how, no clue on the complexities of the situation, it's the equivalent of "trust me bro" with absolutely zero evidence or explanation as to how. "I'll fix the war between two countries that has been going on for over 10 years now and resulted in tens of thousands dead and stolen territory in a day" Are people really this fucking stupid to believe such a statement? Apparently so. Oh and if Trump was so brilliant why didn't he fix the war when he was in office in 16-20, dumb fucks don't realise that Ukraine has been in conflict with Russia since 2014 when they stole Crimea and ignited conflict in the Donbas.

Some Americans are fucking clueless, selfish and especially, hypocrites, considering how insane America goes when it's threatened even slightly and the same Americans demanding Ukraine surrender would be fucking jerking off at the sight of America's military bombing the shit out of some Middle-Eastern country that barely threatens them because "fuck those brown people!" Sure, I mean they are right, that is technically "peace" because 'everyone' will be dead.

How about China invade Texas, slaughter tens of thousands of Americans, kidnap thousands of children, turn your cities into rubble, rape your people and then have to hear Europe say "We'll fix the disaster happening in Texas, we'll cut off all support to America and Americans should negotiate with China and compromise with them for peace, hand them over Arizona for appeasement" because appeasement worked during WW2 didn't it? Hand over all your stuff to the bully, bow down, never fight back.

Wish they'd just be honest with us instead of hiding behind their bullshit and tell us what they really mean which is "Trump will end the wars by letting Israel slaughter all those dirty-Arabs until there's none left and cutting off aid to Ukraine to let Russia slaughter all Ukrainians because we love Russia now, and celebrate as we achieved peace through letting the fascists slaughter everyone who opposes them"

Demonizing middle America isn't a good tactic.  The whole "deplorable" and "garbage" comments backfired.  We really going to make the same mistake a 3rd time?  Bill Maher, back in 2020, had an episode about supporting middle America (e.g. Trump voters) because the left needs them to win elections..  he was right and is still right.

I'm not American and America just voted in Trump so it's already a done deal and thus I don't give a fuck about hurting MAGA's precious feelings. You didn't address anything else I said other than to once again come to the defence of MAGA's feelings being hurt. My post is clearly about MAGA and the specific group of voters who believe Trump can end the war in Ukraine in a day and support cutting off all aid to Ukraine so spare me the fucking "but their feelings!" when Ukraine (and Palestinians) are very likely to be slaughtered or crippled as a country and Europe a lot less safer because of these idiots. Did I demonize the whole of middle America? No. So get off my ass and stop thinking peoples hurt feelings are worse than the cost of human life.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 08 November 2024

LegitHyperbole said:

I'm absolutely Gobsmacked... Holy shit. Trump Derangment syndrome is back and it's on crack and conspiracy theories. I feel so bad for these people, obviously Boogie and the dude after isn't real. 

You really should see some of the FA (FurAffinity) journals I've been looking at from artists I've been following over the years, like holy shit some are downright nasty. 

Me and an art friend recently stopped following an artist we both looked up to, simply because of how nasty they were to anyone trying to calm them down or trying to be reasonable to them.

There are even some folks like me, who are Bi, trying to be reasonable, and are met with instant belittlement, vitriol and pure hatred, while also being denounced from the fandom (as if any artist had that kind of power anyway). 

Last edited by Chazore - on 08 November 2024

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LegitHyperbole said:

I'm absolutely Gobsmacked... Holy shit. Trump Derangment syndrome is back and it's on crack and conspiracy theories. I feel so bad for these people, obviously Boogie and the dude after isn't real. 

A generation that is way too online and used to it. I may be angry, sad or upset at times, but in my generation we are more prone to do that in private and not showing negative feelings to the world.



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Mnementh said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

4) The left needs to stop saying 50% of the country is fascist (people dont even know what that means), neo-nazi, garbage people, or think they have possession over certain demographics. How can you make someone change their vote when you call them nazi, maybe the worst thing you can say about someone? It will be very difficult to win votes from the other side treating half the population this way. Because, in the end, you DO need to conquer part of the people on the other side.

Yeah, people really have to stop with this. Humans are persons, each with their own ideas, wishes, dreams, hopes and problems. For instance workers exploited for their labor by Amazon have much in common, even if one is black and the other white. Skin colors, sexuality and so on are all secondary traits. I am amazed if people that are asked to describe themself first think of their skin color or sexuality. You are so boring and so much without own agency driven by external forces that the most defining traits of yourself in your view are things outside your own control? If you describe yourself as a Star Wars fan, a gamer, a parent or a curious person, you show more interest in the traits of your own personality you yourself defined. Way more interesting.

What the hell is this exchange?

At no point did Harris's campaign call half the country fascist, neo-nazis or garbage. It was the Trump campaign that called the other side marxists, communists, fascists, radical lunatics and the enemy from within that the national guard or military should be used on.

The only thing the Harris campaign did was attack Trump, and only Trump, by calling him a fascist which he is. There are way too many people who don't understand that the word fascist is a descriptive term and not just an insult. The Harris campaign used it as a description, the way it's meant to be. The Trump campaign used the word as an insult, because the members of the Biden administration clearly do not fit the description of the word fascist.



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Mnementh said:
LegitHyperbole said:

I'm absolutely Gobsmacked... Holy shit. Trump Derangment syndrome is back and it's on crack and conspiracy theories. I feel so bad for these people, obviously Boogie and the dude after isn't real. 

A generation that is way too online and used to it. I may be angry, sad or upset at times, but in my generation we are more prone to do that in private and not showing negative feelings to the world.

Agreed that this generation is too online, but I don't really think your generation is any better though (in the opposite direction). Your generation is prone to bottling up all their emotions and not opening up to anyone (not just online) which then becomes a shitshow when the bottle eventually explodes, Lol. But at the end of the day, every generation thinks they're better than the other.

But I'll take the left crying, looking a little embarrassing, having a few public meltdowns any day of the week over when the right lose, they storm the capitol and try to overthrow government, these two reactions are not comparable in the slightest in the negative impact they have. Especially applies to women being upset who are about to and already are having their rights ripped away, being forced to carry a rapist child, dying in hospitals because they can't get abortions, etc.