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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

The share of under-30s voting Trump was up from 2016 too, by 5 points:

https://nypost.com/2024/11/06/us-news/kamala-badly-fumbles-gen-z-vote-which-broke-big-for-trump/

But yeah for the most part I agree, a large portion of young men have grown up in an environment where it can feel like left side of the political spectrum is hostile towards them, which makes the right feel welcoming by comparison.

Let's say a young white dude votes for the first time this year. For much of his life, he's seen the left constantly carrying on about how men are garbage, masculinity is toxic, white people are evil, and straight white men especially are the devil incarnate. All that adds up. Then someone like Trump or Tate comes along and says hey, you're actually great, follow me and I'll make your life better.

It's not hard to see how so many end up leaning right.

You are describing an idiot who has yet to grow up, because the left you are talking about isn't representative of the left to begin with. When a young guy spends all his time on the internet and stumbles into the bubble of far-left activists and their garbage, then I can see why he would think that way. But even then, he should be smart enough to bother to listen what politicians on the left say and do, that way he would realize that the far-left is a small movement on the fringe that merely seems to be much bigger than it really is because of how obnoxious they are by screaming on the internet.

When you look at the population on the whole, you won't find more than 1% being on the woke train - which is what fits the description you laid out in your second to last paragraph. On the other extreme you have 10-15% of the population who are convinced that they are fighting a culture war and must push back against the wokeness. Meanwhile, everyone who remains is more concerned about actual problems.

There's a reason why study after study finds that people reducing their time on the internet reduces depression and leads to increased happiness. Social media is a plague because it's not properly moderated. What happens to such a place is that the good people leave, so the worst of humanity gets to dominate the platform, be it far-left or far-right bullshit. The problem is that you can't isolate any members of these factions and make them see the light, because only they themselves can make that choice. For that reason, I consider it pointless to cater to such people, because the time is better spent on the majority inbetween who is at least willing to listen to what you have to offer.

Although the problem there is that American campaigns make people numb due to the extremely long duration, so it's difficult to pick out the little pieces of actual information in the avalanche of blown out of proportion filler. So I am not surprised that most Americans don't understand how inflation and tariffs work, because broadcasts that deal with these topics specifically get lost in the shuffle all too easily. It's this ignorance that seemed to have mattered most in this election.

That's the thing though, people you think are idiots still get to vote. I don't think such people are necessarily beyond saving though; it is possible, albeit difficult, to de-radicalize folks. Plenty of people for example have been rehabilitated from being in cults and the like. 

And yeah, as an outsider myself the American election process does seem somewhat absurd to me too; the length of the process, weird shit like the Electoral College. System needs an overhaul but I expect that's very hard to achieve.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 07 November 2024

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curl-6 said:

Oh I agree, but that's the thing though, idiots still get to vote. I don't think such people are necessarily beyond saving though; it is possible, albeit difficult, to de-radicalize folks. Plenty of people for example have been rehabilitated from being in cults and the like. 

And yeah, as an outsider myself the American election process does seem somewhat absurd to me too; the length of the process, weird shit like the Electoral College. System needs an overhaul but I expect that's very hard to achieve.

I said as much, people can get out if they make that choice themselves.

Changing the constitution requires two-third majorities in both chambers of congress as far as I know. But under the current constitution, such majorities are practically impossible to achieve for either party alone, plus there's no bi-partisan interest in doing so.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

RolStoppable said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Do you know what would be extremely funny. If he actually started fixing things for Americans, like the cost of living, homelessness, women's rights that have been removed lately and so on. I'm watching people melt down again like 2016 and like...ffs, he was in before and the world didn't end. People are pushed to live in fear of "the other side" and trump being Hitler. I'll eat my pants if this man starts showing signs of a fascist regime, he's the biggest attention whore the world has ever seen, all he wants is love and he hates the fact that people hate him. He'll do whatever it takes to win as many peoples favour as possible, even actually making the country better.
People outside of America, us Europeans have more to worry about than the Americans themselves, we're the ones who are gonna get fucked by foreign policy changes if he's intent on changing things. All I'm saying is it's done with now, give it a chance and see where this leads to, if it leads to ruin push back at the prick but if it leads to success don't berate the bastard, give him what he wants. Give him praise.

When you do eat your pants, put a video of it on YouTube.

I'm confident I will not have to consume a single thread of my pants. I'll soften 'em up and get the butter ready but in no world is little Donald Trump an evil dictator. No one would take him seriously as a dictator, he'd be laughed off stage, he doesn't even have the hands for it. 



The U.S could technically do a lot to change the electoral system without constitutional amendments. 

For example, we could adopt a mixed-member proportional system for the House of Representatives through simple legislation. We used to have many states use block voting in the past, which was banned by simple legislation, because it was used to deprive black people of representation, for example.

One electoral college problem could be resolved by simple legislation that increases the size of the House of Representatives, making each state have a much more proportional share of EC votes since count of EC votes is their share of Senators + Representatives in the house. Then you'll very rarely have a situation of popular vote lost, EC vote win. 

The reason why these don't happen has more to do with the individuals in the major parties not wanting to disrupt their own power-centers, and weaken their party's relative power-share by introducing a multi-party system, as well as just institutional conservativism in both parties. 



The American electoral system is the most sophisticated system that civilized men could ever come up with.

As far as the results of this election, I am delighted. Trump will greatly improve the unacceptable situation in our southern border, he will put an end to the madness going on between Ukraine and Russia, the Middle East will quiet down, the USA will be feared again, he will facilitate the energy production in the US (oil and gas), he will tackle our inflation problem by reducing government wasteful spending, he will try to pass tax cuts for people who actually get hurt by it the most (no taxes on tips and overtime is a great idea) and most importantly, he will not use any government fascist institutions to try to take away my bitcoin.

Obs: If you know where to keep your bitcoin it is impossible for anyone to seize it, but governments will try. Trump said it clearly that he is 100 percent for self custody. The bitcoin president

Anyway. The future of these great United States 🇺🇸 is looking great right now. Sorry haters. Not sorry.



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RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

Oh I agree, but that's the thing though, idiots still get to vote. I don't think such people are necessarily beyond saving though; it is possible, albeit difficult, to de-radicalize folks. Plenty of people for example have been rehabilitated from being in cults and the like. 

And yeah, as an outsider myself the American election process does seem somewhat absurd to me too; the length of the process, weird shit like the Electoral College. System needs an overhaul but I expect that's very hard to achieve.

I said as much, people can get out if they make that choice themselves.

Changing the constitution requires two-third majorities in both chambers of congress as far as I know. But under the current constitution, such majorities are practically impossible to achieve for either party alone, plus there's no bi-partisan interest in doing so.

It’s actually more difficult than that: changing the constitution requires a majority of delegates from three fourths of the states to put an amendment into effect. That means 38 states have to agree to make the change. 



Valdney said:

The American electoral system is the most sophisticated system that civilized men could ever come up with.

As far as the results of this election, I am delighted. Trump will greatly improve the unacceptable situation in our southern border, he will put an end to the madness going on between Ukraine and Russia, the Middle East will quiet down, the USA will be feared again, he will facilitate the energy production in the US (oil and gas), he will tackle our inflation problem by reducing government wasteful spending, he will try to pass tax cuts for people who actually get hurt by it the most (no taxes on tips and overtime is a great idea) and most importantly, he will not use any government fascist institutions to try to take away my bitcoin.

Obs: If you know where to keep your bitcoin it is impossible for anyone to seize it, but governments will try. Trump said it clearly that he is 100 percent for self custody. The bitcoin president

Anyway. The future of these great United States 🇺🇸 is looking great right now. Sorry haters. Not sorry.

But who's to say if that was just an empty appeal to court libertarian votes?  



November 2024 Articles:

Purpose 1951 (XS) Review -- 3/10 |

It's not like 2016 either where Trump won via the quirks of the Electoral College but lost the popular vote.

This time, he won the popular vote too, quite comfortably even. And there were swings to the right across a multitude of states and demographics.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-07/trump-victory-by-the-numbers/104573034

Furthermore, it's not like 2016 where he was a wildcard, an unknown that people didn't quite know what to expect from. America has already had four years of a Trump presidency; they knew what they were getting into, and they chose it enthusiastically and in droves.

There's no way to sugarcoat it, this is a resounding rejection of the Democrat party.

Hopefully the Dems and the left in general do some serious soul-searching over this and learn to do better, because continuing as they are and dismissing anyone outside their ideological bubble as some sort of evil heathen orcs will only ensure that huge swathes of the population continue to turn their back on them.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 08 November 2024

curl-6 said:

There's no way to sugarcoat it, this is a resounding rejection of the Democrat platform.

Nope, much of the Democratic platform is being passed at the state-level currently, and is very popular among conservatives. Some examples I mentioned in the quoted post below, but another example is that Nebraska (a mostly red state) just had an amendment for paid sick leave pass. The last few presidential elections haven't been about  actual platforms or policies. It is why the GOP stopped releasing manifestos in 2016. Everything is vibe-based. Mid-terms are the platform/policy elections, and Democrats have been doing very well in them. 

sc94597 said:

It isn't clear to me that policies are the issue and reason why Democrats lost. For the following reasons: 

1. When doing blind studies Americans preferred Harris's policies. 

2. In certain states, like Colorado, where the same or even more left-wing policies were messaged differently (framed as saving Americans money overall) Democrats over-performed. 

3. We are seeing an anti-incumbency wave globally caused by inflation. Democrats were fighting an up-hill battle to win this election, being the incumbent party. They actually fared better than other incumbent parties globally, containing a lot of their losses. We already know that many working class people voted only on the presidential ticket for Trump for this single reason. That's why Democrats did relatively better in some of the down-ballot races than they did for the presidential election. See: Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, and maybe even Pennsylvania (depending on how the last few counts and recount goes.) 


4. In many states that rejected Democrats, progressive referendum showed majority support for their policies. For example, in Missouri a minimum wage of 15 dollars and an abortion protection amendment passed. In Florida a majority voted to legalize recreational marijuana and for a pro-abortion amendment, it didn't pass because the state requires 60% of the vote and the votes were in the low and high 50% respectively. In Arizona a pro-abortion amendment passed. 

5. This election wasn't even about policy. Mid-term elections are the policy elections and Democrats have been doing much better in those lately. Neither candidate really talked too much about their policies, and the popular ones were adopted by both. 

Trump probably won this election for three main reasons: 1. inflation and the anti-incumbency wave across the globe caused by it, 2. he is charismatic and does better than the average GOP, people like his authoritarian brashness and anti-establishment pose, and 3. Harris focused too much on trying to secure the vote of a group that doesn't exist anymore (Bush Republicans/Neocons) rather than activating her base. 

She didn't lose because she is a woman or because she is a person of color either. Many women and people of color in the swing states out-performed her. Yes that is another thing that limits her ability to gather votes, but if #1, #2, and #3 didn't exist she probably would have won despite this. 

Edit: Also, Biden shouldn't have run in the first place. He ran in 2020 on being a one-term president and should have stuck with that. There should have been a primary last year. 



burninmylight said:
 

Minorities win mayoral elections often enough, yet we've only had one as president. Obama galvanized a huge sector of typically nonvoting minorities to show up in droves that H. Clinton and Harris could not. Bible thumpers are more comfortable with a black man in office than a woman or a gay man. I agree that Pete got that rizz though.

I always hate this argument against Pete. The Bible thumpers that have an issue with Pete being gay are never voting for a democrat anyways.

Also don't forget Pete is a devout Christian that can actually quote scripture unlike Trump. 

I will also add as a counterpoint, lets not pretend South Bend (Notre Dame adjacent) is representative of most small midwest cities. 

Last edited by PDF - 4 days ago

 

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